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RAW_OmarBKhatab
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Raw_OmarBKhatab:
This is self-contradictory. If God gives man the capability to sin, then is not sin according to God's will?
How can man be held responsible for his actions if God wills him to sin?
And if God wills sin, how can God be all-Good?
Upon what do you base this conclusion?
Do I need to post the Apostles' Creed?
"I believe in God the Father, creator of heaven and earth..." |
obiwan: Every good and every Bad happens because Allah permitted it to be. For Humans, Allah gave us the power of Judgment. So, although Allah gave us the capabilty of doing BAD deeds, it is upto us, if we will do it or not.
Allah is all powerfull and all knowing. The reason I said, u dont know the power of your creator is because, u are trying to LOGIC Allahs capabilty with ur Human capacity of Logic and reasoning. Allah and His Might is beyond any Logic.
Becasue, u keep trying to make sence that u cannot comprehend, u find utter contradictions....
I am sure, u are confused as ever before..... untill u revert to Islam and ponder up the creation of Allah.
There is One Way To The Creator.... and that is Islams Way 
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RAW_OmarBKhatab
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
Omar, you seem to be very hateful for someone who says he's a muslim. |
Hatefull? How?
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RAW_OmarBKhatab
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
Doesn't the Qur'an teach that you should be kind to others? Where does it teach that Jews are cursed and and Shi'ia's are not Muslims? |
Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims. Its not teaching, its facts, like Night comes after day, and day follows the night.
Consult an Ulima to find out how. If I explain u, It will not be acceptable by you. U will find something new to argue with.
Claming Jews are cursed is not being "unkind" to them. It is an Islamic point of view. If u would check in history books, Jewish community suffered the least while under Islamic Empire. While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries. And, etc etc [read History books... too long for this post etc etc]
Shiia are not Muslims, is to refute the Jewish westurn media claim that shiia are Muslims. Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jewish scholar created shiiaism back about 1400 years, during the time of Kholifa Ali(ra). Speaking the truth about shia is not unkind.
U may have a different idea of being kind and loving. Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt?
Last edited by RAW_OmarBKhatab on 03-04-2003 at 04:12
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Lonestar
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AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
time: 00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by RAW_OmarBKhatab
Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims. Its not teaching, its facts, like Night comes after day, and day follows the night.
Consult an Ulima to find out how. If I explain u, It will not be acceptable by you. U will find something new to argue with.
Claming Jews are cursed is not being "unkind" to them. It is an Islamic point of view. If u would check in history books, Jewish community suffered the least while under Islamic Empire. While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries. And, etc etc [read History books... too long for this post etc etc]
Shiia are not Muslims, is to refute the Jewish westurn media claim that shiia are Muslims. Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jewish scholar created shiiaism back about 1400 years, during the time of Kholifa Ali(ra). Speaking the truth about shia is not unkind.
U may have a different idea of being kind and loving. Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt? |
The Qur'an is the word of God, as passed down to the Prophet Mohammed, right? Therefore, I repeat, where in the Qur'an does it say this stuff you're saying? Or is it just that "Collection" (  ) of Mohammed's sayings that one of the Caliphs made up to justify the slaughter of the Jews of Baghdad?
Incidently, I don't know why the Jewish Media would be trying to help the Shi'ia's, as the Iranians (Shiites) back Hezbollah which is Israel's biggest problem after the PLO.
Killing children is a horrible, horrible thing. But you know what makes the United States better than Iraq, and sadly, much of the muslim world?
We go out of our way to avoid hitting non-combatants. Muslim "warriors" cheerfully blow up school buses and destroy non-military buildings.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:26
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quote:
Allah and His Might is beyond any Logic.
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Fair enough. However, this does not rule out us trying to understand how God works. Why else would God give us a capacity to reason, and to make decisions for ourselves? God allows us to make mistakes from an ignorant conscience, but encourages us to become informed so that we will know what is right, and will do so.
Just because I am trying to understand God does not mean that I render his power less, it is making full use of the capacity God has given me.
The interaction between God's foreknowledge and the free will of man is a problem for Christians as well as Muslims. However, we differ in our explanations. While you accredit sin to God, we say that sin is a result of the choices man has made.
Where does sin originate, Omar?
quote:
While Christians where killing Jews all over the world in Europre, they found safe heavens in Muslim countries.
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Forgive me, but I would like to see evidence of such havens for Jews. Do Jews find safe haven in Muslim countries today?
quote:
Like killing children and women while trying to kill enemy soilders are kind? and loving? when u are trying "free" them from the tyrunt?
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You assume all Christians support the war. This is not so. Even the Pope spoke out against the war.
quote:
Jews are cursed and Shiia are not Muslims.
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Why are Jews cursed? For rejecting their prophet?
Can a Jew be redeemed, within his faith?
This is one difference between Christians and Muslims today. Christians acknowledge our debt to the Jews, and that we are 'ingrafted branches' in the tree of life. Muslims deny that the large portion of what they believe, they owe to the Jews.
Do you not share many prophets?
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:26
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Dr. Strangelove
From the book
"Answering Islam."
by N. Geisler and A. Saleeh
p.171-172
POLYGAMY
" According to the Quran a man may have up to 4 wives."
Muhammad received a revelation from God that a man should have no more than four wives at one time, yet he had many more. A Muslim defender of Muhammad writing in the Prophet of Islam as the Ideal Husband, admitted thatt he had fourteen wives! Yet he told others they could have only four wives. How can someone be a perfect moral example for the whole human race and not even live by one of the basic laws he laid down as from God?
In addition to all this, we are asked to believe that God made a special exception to another divinely revealed law to give each wife her conjugal rights justly, that is to observe a fixed rotation among them. Muhammad insists that God told him that he could have whichever wife he wanted whe he wanted her: "Thou mayest defer the (the turn of) any of them that thou Pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest."
FEMALE SERVANT BEATING
On one occasion Muhammad sanctioned the beating of a female servant in order to elicit the truth from her. Haykal reports that, "the servant was called in and Ali immediately seized her and struck her painfully and repeatedly as he commanded her to to tell the truth to the Prophet of God.
WIFE BEATING
According to the Q'uran, men can even beat their wives.
"Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excell the other...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them"
TREATMENT OF UNBELIEVERS p.174
The punishment of those who wage war against God(unbelievers) And His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.
CARAVAN RAIDING
Muhammed himself sanctioned his followers raiding of the commercial Meccan caravans. The Prophet himself led three such raids. Doubtless the purpose of the attacks was to obtain financial reward but also to impress the Meccans with the growing Muslim force.
FALSE WITNESS
Another time, Muhammad sanctioned a follower to lie to an enemy named Khalid in order to kill him. This he did. Then, at a safe distance, but in the presence of the man's wives, he fell on him with his sword and killed him. Khalid's women were the only witnesses and they began to cry and mourn for him.
ASSASSINATIONS
On other occasions Muhammad had no aversion to politically experidant assassinations. When a prominent Jew, Ka'b Ibn Al-Ashraf, had stirred up some discord against Muhammad and composed a satirical poem about him, the Prophet asked, Who will deliver me from Ka'b? Immediately four persons volunteered and shortly returned to Muhammad with Ka'b's head..
Also Muhammad ordered the death of Uqbah ibn Abu Muayt.
On 2 other occasions, Muhammad ordered the deaths of satirical poets.
KEEPING OATHS p. 175
The Qur'an itself informs us the Muhammad was not indisposed to breaking promises when he found it advantageous. He even got a revelation to break a long-standing pledge to avoid killing during a sacred month of Arab:"They ask thee concerning fighting in the prohibited month. Say: Fighting therein is a grave offense, but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God."
EXECUTING WOMEN
A Jewish woman was executed because she had killed a Muslim by dropping a millstone on his head. Both slave women who had allegedly spoken against Muhammad in song, were indicted and ordered executed with their master. When it was believed that one woman, Abu'Afk had insulted Muhammad, by a poem, one of Muhammad's followers "attacked her during the night while she was surrounded by her children, one of whom she was nursing. And, "after removing the child from his victim, he killed her."
GENOCIDE p.176
Muhammad attacked the last Jewish tribe of Medina based on the suspicion that they had plotted with the Meccan enemies against Muslims. Unlike the previous two Jewish tribes who had been simply expelled from the city, this time all the men of the tribe were put to death and the women and children were sold into slavery.
Last edited by Ben Kenobi on 03-04-2003 at 09:48
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
"O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none but god; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons other than God. (3:64) |
Needs editing.
"O People of the Book! Let us rally to a common formula to be binding on both us and you: That we worship none; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lords and patrons. (11:52 EST)
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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:26
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Frankly, What kind of God would want humans to crawl
and abase themselves? What kind of God would want
such spineless worms for followers?
Seems All too human (wink,wink, nudge, nudge, say no
more, say no more)
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03-04-2003 00:59
Seriously, the quote was that Mohammod was sinless there for it is not bigotory to point out that he did a great many things (murder, had sex with a child, possibly abused drugs) which most religions would consider sinful.
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