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Ozz
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Bigot. |
Heretic
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BustaMike
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You think you're better than me? You've been handling my ass pennies!!!
Nov 1999
time: 21:26
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quote:
While God did give Adam the ability to make moral decisions, it cannot be the fault of God when man chooses to sin, since man has the option to choose what is right. Under the Muslim argument, this choice is unavailable, since they deny the concept of original sin. By doing so, the origin of sin must be God, and not the decisions of Man. |
obiwan, your argument fails because you used "reason and logic" and OmarBKhatab has made it perfectly clear that there is no need for that. I could make the much simpler argument that I believe that Moa Dib is the true god because I read it in a book and that must be true because I have faith in it. You say, "That's ridiculous, how can you defend that claim?" and I say I don't have to because "reason and logic" don't apply to me.
Of course that last notion doesn't matter either because it means nothing w/o reason or logic. You know... human interaction in general really doesn't mean much w/o reason or logic, not that that's all there is to human interaction, but there certainly couldn't be any meaningful contact w/o it.
bigots 
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RAW_OmarBKhatab
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ONE Reply to all those posts after my last Post (sorry I dont have time to reply them one by one)
Read This if u are looking for a reply
1. I am not flaming any Religion on this post, I am trying to say what we believe in. And some times, it may or will be offensive towards others, like example, I understand saying Jewish are cursed will be offensive towards the Jews.
2. Shiia are not Muslims and a creation of Jewish scholar back 1400 years. But, it does not mean that present day Jews can control shiias any more. The idea of creating shiiaism was not to control but to corrupt the true Islam.
3. Quran: Quran is complete but Quran must be accompanied by Hadith (saying of Prophet Mohammed(saw)). Most of u have no clue of what are different kinds of revelations.
Reveletions from Allah are of two kinds:
a) Direct (Allah sending His message to Prophet Mohammed(saw) directly)
b) Indirect (where Jibril (as), the angle brought the revelation to Prophet Mohammed(saw))
Quran is Indirect revelation of Allah, Angel Jibri(as) brought it to Prophet MOhammed(saw). This form of revelation is complex to understand, and for sure, without faith, non-Muslims will be forever confused and will find contradiction as they dont understand the deep inner meaning.
Hadith (saying/life of Prophet Mohammed(saw)) is Direct Revelation.
ALlah says in Quran(nearest meaning): "whatever Mohammed (saw) spoke is not from his(saw) own desire, instead, he was "inspired" into."
So, whatever Prophet Mohammed (saw) said or did, is devine and was ordered by Allah. This is easier to understand than Quran as Prophet Mohammed(saw) showed how it is done by example.
Those who Accept Quran and disregard Hadith are NOT even Muslims . That is what Shiia do. Shiia claim to Follow Quran [correct belief] but, denounce Hadith [which renders them non-Muslims].
Quran u can call the theory, Hadith, is the practice example of what Quran told us to do. Islam is ACTION (ammal or good deeds), hadith teaches us HOW to obey ALlahs orders as said in Quran.
Now, for non-Muslims, understanding of Islamic belief system will be limited to websites like "answering Islam" type websites.
BUT, there are people who work and do reseach on their own who will see the "real Islam" that is not presented in Jewish controlled westurn media.
If any one wants to understand Quran, he MUST understand Hadith.
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Dr. Strangelove
From the book
"Answering Islam."
by N. Geisler and A. Saleeh
p.171-172
POLYGAMY
" According to the Quran a man may have up to 4 wives."
Muhammad received a revelation from God that a man should have no more than four wives at one time, yet he had many more. A Muslim defender of Muhammad writing in the Prophet of Islam as the Ideal Husband, admitted thatt he had fourteen wives! Yet he told others they could have only four wives. How can someone be a perfect moral example for the whole human race and not even live by one of the basic laws he laid down as from God?
In addition to all this, we are asked to believe that God made a special exception to another divinely revealed law to give each wife her conjugal rights justly, that is to observe a fixed rotation among them. Muhammad insists that God told him that he could have whichever wife he wanted whe he wanted her: "Thou mayest defer the (the turn of) any of them that thou Pleasest, and thou mayest receive any thou pleasest."
FEMALE SERVANT BEATING
On one occasion Muhammad sanctioned the beating of a female servant in order to elicit the truth from her. Haykal reports that, "the servant was called in and Ali immediately seized her and struck her painfully and repeatedly as he commanded her to to tell the truth to the Prophet of God.
WIFE BEATING
According to the Q'uran, men can even beat their wives.
"Men are in charge of women because Allah hath made the one to excell the other...As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them"
TREATMENT OF UNBELIEVERS p.174
The punishment of those who wage war against God(unbelievers) And His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land.
CARAVAN RAIDING
Muhammed himself sanctioned his followers raiding of the commercial Meccan caravans. The Prophet himself led three such raids. Doubtless the purpose of the attacks was to obtain financial reward but also to impress the Meccans with the growing Muslim force.
FALSE WITNESS
Another time, Muhammad sanctioned a follower to lie to an enemy named Khalid in order to kill him. This he did. Then, at a safe distance, but in the presence of the man's wives, he fell on him with his sword and killed him. Khalid's women were the only witnesses and they began to cry and mourn for him.
ASSASSINATIONS
On other occasions Muhammad had no aversion to politically experidant assassinations. When a prominent Jew, Ka'b Ibn Al-Ashraf, had stirred up some discord against Muhammad and composed a satirical poem about him, the Prophet asked, Who will deliver me from Ka'b? Immediately four persons volunteered and shortly returned to Muhammad with Ka'b's head..
Also Muhammad ordered the death of Uqbah ibn Abu Muayt.
On 2 other occasions, Muhammad ordered the deaths of satirical poets.
KEEPING OATHS p. 175
The Qur'an itself informs us the Muhammad was not indisposed to breaking promises when he found it advantageous. He even got a revelation to break a long-standing pledge to avoid killing during a sacred month of Arab:"They ask thee concerning fighting in the prohibited month. Say: Fighting therein is a grave offense, but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God."
EXECUTING WOMEN
A Jewish woman was executed because she had killed a Muslim by dropping a millstone on his head. Both slave women who had allegedly spoken against Muhammad in song, were indicted and ordered executed with their master. When it was believed that one woman, Abu'Afk had insulted Muhammad, by a poem, one of Muhammad's followers "attacked her during the night while she was surrounded by her children, one of whom she was nursing. And, "after removing the child from his victim, he killed her."
GENOCIDE p.176
Muhammad attacked the last Jewish tribe of Medina based on the suspicion that they had plotted with the Meccan enemies against Muslims. Unlike the previous two Jewish tribes who had been simply expelled from the city, this time all the men of the tribe were put to death and the women and children were sold into slavery. |
You can find exactly the same sort of thing in the Old Testament of the bible. Your point?
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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by obiwan18
Muslims claim that Muhammed is sinless, and these examples show not only how Muhammed falls short of our morality, but also how he falls short of Muslim morality. |
"Our morality"? Bigot.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 04-04-2003 at 06:08
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03-04-2003 09:54
No they don't.
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