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Az
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MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:26
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What exactly would you call "rate of change"?
Growth of GDP? Rise of productivity?
Big deal, some third world countries are doing much better.
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These third world countries are nowhere as near the technological level, but in any case, I meant something else. the US has changed its' culture in relation to the changing climate in the world, while preserving the core issues, and values. It has weathered time very nicely. It also has solved the problem that many european countries have, the decline in population, and their replacement.
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As for the "head start", history has amply shown that head starts don't guarantee anything.
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it ensures strong existance for quite a while, and I don't see any competitors right now. China could do it, but it has a long way to go to become a fullfledged superpower.
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Lincoln
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Do these peaceniks ever consider the "innocent people being killed" by Saddam? Or can they not think about two things at the same time?
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Lincoln
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This reminds me of a certain woman yesterday in Iraq who complained to the liberating troops that they were too late to save her. Saddam's henchmen had her son killed the day before. I suppose his life and the lives of hundreds of his countrymen that are snuffed out by the dictator Saddam are of no importance to those who have a one track mind of hatred toward anything that the United States does. The peacniks are morally corrupt inspite of their high-sounding rhetoric.
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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:26
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My guess is that these people just don't live in the real world. There are clearly other things to deal with and care of, when you live in another dimension. |
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This reminds me of a certain woman yesterday in Iraq who complained to the liberating troops that they were too late to save her. Saddam's henchmen had her son killed the day before. I suppose his life and the lives of hundreds of his countrymen that are snuffed out by the dictator Saddam are of no importance to those who have a one track mind of hatred toward anything that the United States does. The peacniks are morally corrupt inspite of their high-sounding rhetoric. |
You people still don't get it, do you?
Liberating Iraq has nice side-effects, but we do not believe that this is the reason why America is doing it.
The world has seen how the US has treated the world with utter contempt in the past two years. If you want to do a spin on "liberating another country", at least make sure that the rest of the world can look back at the events of the past two years and say, "Yes, indeed, they do have a track record of caring about the rest of the world."
Unfortunately, you don't. This is why more and more people are arriving at the conclusion that America is not doing this out of compassion - you are doing this out of ambition. After all, that's exactly what your track record of the past two years tell us. It is just as well that the people of Iraq might benefit from this; but if the ulterior motive is not compassion, then we cannot compliment America on its "compassion". We can only fear it for its ambition.
The US has messed up its PR campaign very badly. Instead of sitting around complaining that it's somehow the fault of the rest of the world, why don't you sit down and think about exactly how the support after 911 was squandered in less than a year?
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Asmodean
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Aarhus, Denmark
Aug 1999
time: 06:26
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Originally posted by ranskaldan
You people still don't get it, do you?
Liberating Iraq has nice side-effects, but we do not believe that this is the reason why America is doing it.
The world has seen how the US has treated the world with utter contempt in the past two years. If you want to do a spin on "liberating another country", at least make sure that the rest of the world can look back at the events of the past two years and say, "Yes, indeed, they do have a track record of caring about the rest of the world."
Unfortunately, you don't. This is why more and more people are arriving at the conclusion that America is not doing this out of compassion - you are doing this out of ambition. After all, that's exactly what your track record of the past two years tell us. It is just as well that the people of Iraq might benefit from this; but if the ulterior motive is not compassion, then we cannot compliment America on its "compassion". We can only fear it for its ambition.
The US has messed up its PR campaign very badly. Instead of sitting around complaining that it's somehow the fault of the rest of the world, why don't you sit down and think about exactly how the support after 911 was squandered in less than a year? |
So there are added benefits...so what???
Added benefit number one: The U.S. establishing a powerbase in the Arab world. While that might be nice from a strategic point og view, it's not really going to happen. Why? Because the Arabs are just too different from the Americans. Even in Kuwait, voices can be heard against Kuwaits close attachments to the U.S.
Added benefit number two: OIL. Oh please...you don't really think that, do you? While the Iraqi oil reserves are indeed large, the U.S. would never, ever steal oil from a foreign country, not even frim Iraq. Not to mention the fact that Russia have major contracts on oil development in Iraq. And that is a can of worms that even Bush doesn't want to open.
Added benfit number three. Disarmament. Sure that wil happen, and the world will be a better place for it.
So don't you think that you are just a little blue-eyed? 
Asmodean
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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:26
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18:24 (17:24 GMT)
Dutch minister of defense disapproves the appearance of a Dutch liason-officer in the press conference of CentCom earlier today.
The Netherlands 'are not and will not be involved in militairy operations in Iraq'.
The liason officer apparently is in Qatar in relation to the Dutch Patriot batteries deployed in Diyarbakir (Turkey)
Source: Minister of Defense speaking on national Radio.
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ranskaldan
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Beijing ~ Singapore ~ Toronto ~ All hail to the new Rome
Sep 2001
time: 00:26
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Originally posted by Asmodean
So there are added benefits...so what???
Added benefit number one: The U.S. establishing a powerbase in the Arab world. While that might be nice from a strategic point og view, it's not really going to happen. Why? Because the Arabs are just too different from the Americans. Even in Kuwait, voices can be heard against Kuwaits close attachments to the U.S. |
So? The Kuwaiti government has been aiding the U.S. as far as possible - while running the risk of being alienated by neighbours and its own people.
The U.S. needs more countries like that. Unfortunately, at the rate you're going, you will lose the ones you already have. And that is not good for your country, nor for the Pax Americana.
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Added benefit number two: OIL. Oh please...you don't really think that, do you? While the Iraqi oil reserves are indeed large, the U.S. would never, ever steal oil from a foreign country, not even frim Iraq. Not to mention the fact that Russia have major contracts on oil development in Iraq. And that is a can of worms that even Bush doesn't want to open. |
While I do not necessarily believe that America is going in for the oil, I think you're naive in thinking that America is an angelic, compassionate entity devoted to the betterment of the world.
Like all countries, America is selfish. In the past, the US has been careful in maintaining a working relationship with the rest of the world, by actually listening to other countries, now and then. This, unfortunately, is no longer the case.
The image of the U.S. has severely worsened in the eyes of the world in the past two years. And you should open your eyes and see this, even if only to preserve the continued dominance of your own country.
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Added benfit number three. Disarmament. Sure that wil happen, and the world will be a better place for it. |
Granted.
Once you start doing something about North Korea too, that is.
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So don't you think that you are just a little blue-eyed? |
Tell that to the rest of the world, who has been witnessing nothing but American arrogance and unilateralism for the past two years.
Don't you see? The world doesn't trust America any more. And this loss of trust isn't just because of Iraq either.
It's in your interest to preserve the Pax Americana - and ours too, in fact. So open your eyes to what is happening. You can't lead the world if the world doesn't like you. No superpower can withstand the combined resentment of the world.
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Hell of a coalition when most of the members are afraid of admitting they're part of it. |
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:26
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Originally posted by Lincoln
Do these peaceniks ever consider the "innocent people being killed" by Saddam? Or can they not think about two things at the same time? |
Some of us who do not agree with the current military operation have opposed Saddam since the very beginning. We were at university with people who were on Saddam's assassination list, who risked their lives to march openly in opposition to his rule in Iraq.
Of course, that's when Saddam was good for business- when the United States, France, Great Britain and other western nations could sell him military equipment, help build the Osirak reactor, and all this when Saddam was still killing innocent civilians, his sons-in-law, Iranians, Shi'ites, Kurds...
I can think of all these things when being informed by pliant media outlets of what a monster Saddam is, and how right it is that Iraq be liberated. But what I wonder is, if we have known what a murderous tyrant he is for such a long time (and we have), then why was something not done about it sooner?
Because it wasn't good for business.
Same deal with grotesque regimes like Ceaucescu's Romania- western nations cuddled up to the 'friendly' Warsaw Pact dictator for business, and because it was thought he could be a chink in the Pact's armour. Too bad about the Securitate, and those murdered inhabitants of Timisoara, bulldozed villages, etc, etc.
Same deal with the various Central American/South American despots and tinpot tyrants- Castillo Armas, Anastasio Somoza, Trujillo, Pinochet- doesn't matter how many 'innocent civilians' they kill, so long as it's good for business then they're o.k.
Same deal with the dictators in Africa- Mobutu sucking up millions in American aid, his country operating as a C.I.A. base, providing escape routes for the guerilla forces of Jonas Savimbi- another western stooge.
It doesn't matter how many 'innocent civilians' are killed, how many landmines sown, how many nuns murdered, how many infants die of malnutrition- as long as it's good for business, then money is the fifth horseman.
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Lincoln
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Originally posted by molly bloom
...Of course, that's when Saddam was good for business- when the United States, France, Great Britain and other western nations could sell him military equipment, help build the Osirak reactor, and all this when Saddam was still killing innocent civilians, his sons-in-law, Iranians, Shi'ites, Kurds...
...It doesn't matter how many 'innocent civilians' are killed, how many landmines sown, how many nuns murdered, how many infants die of malnutrition- as long as it's good for business, then money is the fifth horseman. |
Yes, business does drive America and most of the rest of the world. That is really unfortunate but that is reality regardless of what compassionate people think about it. I do not believe that the US is motivated by compassion when it invades Iraq. But I do think that they are fortunate that it is the US and Britain invading and not a country like China. I think it was Winston Chruchill that reminded us to be magnamous in victory. There could certianly be a worse super power.
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Lincoln
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I think you would hate the United States no matter what we do ever. In the eyes of people like you we are just plain evil. To each his own. Every nation has a sordid history. There is really little point in envy. We are made up of good and bad people but I happen to know that most Americans are not evil people who want to dominate the world. But some people only see one side of America. That will never change. So, join the hate America club. I guess misery loves company.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Lincoln
I think you would hate the United States no matter what we do ever. In the eyes of people like you we are just plain evil. To each his own. Every nation has a sordid history. There is really little point in envy. We are made up of good and bad people but I happen to know that most Americans are not evil people who want to dominate the world. But some people only see one side of America. That will never change. So, join the hate America club. I guess misery loves company. |
Oh lor' luv a duck an' lawks a mercy, guv'nor, you are a smooth talkin' Yanqui, an' no mistake!
Me so horny, me love you long time....
Leaving aside the small matter of your being unable to read my mind, I have shown my love for various American creations and artists and places time and again, in various other threads- so don't bother with the predictable, petulant footstomping, it just won't wash.
George 'Mini' Bush is not America, neither is his cabinet, nor the Republican Party. Simply because I disagree with the professed reasons/reasoning behind this war does not make me any more anti-American than it makes me pro-Saddam. But then, when all else fails an ad hominem attack is always an easy reach, I suppose...
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22-03-2003 12:24
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