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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
Far more shells for the artty than bombs for the fly boys though.
And btw, I think that most victims of shelling would dispute you.
Airplanes go quickly. The shells never stop if you are in the way. |
In a building, the blast effects of the 155's are limited. A 2000 pounder will do two things: Let the bastards know we're not short of ammo and resources, so we can hit them with whatever we want; and the blast inside the building will do a lot more internal structural damage, plus stun anyone inside, so that their motivation to stay in that building while dug in are a lot less.
If you're caught in the open, you'll be screwed silly by arty, but dug in forces have amazing survival rates, although it still leaves an impression. If you're in a fighting hole and arty comes by, you're generally safe unless it's practically on top of you. With heavy bombs, the earthshake is enough to lift you out of the hole, where the shrapnel and debris can work you pretty well.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
In a building, the blast effects of the 155's are limited. A 2000 pounder will do two things: Let the bastards know we're not short of ammo and resources, so we can hit them with whatever we want; and the blast inside the building will do a lot more internal structural damage, plus stun anyone inside, so that their motivation to stay in that building while dug in are a lot less.
If you're caught in the open, you'll be screwed silly by arty, but dug in forces have amazing survival rates, although it still leaves an impression. If you're in a fighting hole and arty comes by, you're generally safe unless it's practically on top of you. With heavy bombs, the earthshake is enough to lift you out of the hole, where the shrapnel and debris can work you pretty well. |
What would 1 2K bomb do that 10 or 20 155 shells did not?
Look to any WWII battle site to see what arty can do. Stalingrad was not reduced to rubble by Stukas. It was guns.
How much of an end to Vietnam was brought by blowing the hell out of HCM city from the air?
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Kramerman
hmm perhaps i caught the tail end of this discussion out of context, but I would have to agree with NYE. Arty can be brutally effective, if used well. And it is devestating to pretty much anything that isn't dug in or hardened, ie buildings (non-fortified), vehicles (non cobholm or explosive reactive armor  ), people out in the open, or in vehicles or buildings... |
Arty against AFV's or IFV's is also real effective - the roof armor is nothing, and mobility kills are mission kills. The simple answer is that time on target may have been less for air than for arty. Even though the arty knows it's own position via GPS, the position of the enemy-held building would have to be estimated, unless an FO team with GPS and a laser designator was attached to that Marine company. Even with GPS on firer and target, accuracy with 155's is on the order of 50 meters, since wind and air density conditions aren't known. That can be improved with corrections given in the course of the fire mission, but if you've got air available, why **** with all of that?
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
A battery is six guns, rapid firing at 20 seconds once dialed in, so to get the same blast effect in total, you'd need 2-3 minutes with all six guns firing.
The difference is that the overpressure and blast energy of the 2000 pounder is concentrated in a fraction of a second, and the mass of the explosive and air gives you a higher total overpressure and a shockwave that's much stronger. Sound effects will be 20-30 dBa higher at a minimum, etc.
WW2 is an invalid comparison - the relative expense, tactical control and ground coordination, and time to target of close air support was much higher. The USMC also relies heavily on close in air support - that's why they have their own independent aviation branch, whereas the US Army is limited to rotary aviation, and has to call the Air Force for it's close support. |
Assuming the guys in the air hit the right target.
And, no, it's not invalid. The same problems apply today that applied then. It is awefully difficult to tell wth is going on down there, from the air.
Or maybe 4 more PPCLI troopers would be alive today...
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MichaeltheGreat
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Apolyton Grand Executioner
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mooning the house that Ruth built.
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
If I were setting something up for show, I'd perhaps blow up, say, 1000 Iraqi tanks with 25 US tanks in 5 minutes, infront of cameras. |
73 Easting or 24th ID reams Tawakalna would do much better for that. 
Actually, this is nice for show, but not in the regular sense. These guys took there time, no major stress, no question as to who was in charge or what the result was going to be - you can come out now, or we can ruin your day and then you can come out, but you're going to die or surrender, and we'll move on without casualties or significant delay. Your choice.
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23-03-2003 15:04
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