25-03-2003 10:42									#31
	Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher Um...the US media has shown the exact same thing (CNN in particular)...

Oh I see. I was under the impression they weren't airing it at all. I don't have cable so I don't know what they're showing. My bad.

	25-03-2003 10:42									#32
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Asher EXACTLY.

Yes. Seeing sex on TV wont really give anything to the story. Seeing dead bodies has a shock factor associated with it

quote: You think in the case of a man with child pornography the CHILD should have his/her face plastered on TV screens worldwide?

*Sigh* Ok, I'm wrong about that.

	25-03-2003 10:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I disagree. Dead bodies must be shown in order to give the full story. Numbers just dont do justice.

I'm curious. Exactly how do you think Arab/Muslim nations would react if CNN/BBC or any of the other networks began acting as Western propaganda pieces and began showing the bodies of hundreds upon hundreds of Iraqi soldiers?

	25-03-2003 10:43									#34
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Willem Oh I see. I was under the impression they weren't airing it at all. I don't have cable so I don't know what they're showing. My bad.

They showed them well after many other networks did, because they waited for confirmation that the families of the POWs had been notified first (as they should have, IMO).

	25-03-2003 10:44									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm sure I'm not alone, in your righteous ill-planned idea to show the full horrors of war on TV you're forgetting you're going to probably alienate and turn off far more people than you fascinate.

Yep. Thats fine. If some people dont wish to see the news, then when the warning says "WARNING - THE FOLLOWING IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME", they can leave. Or whatever.

quote: And the people who become fascinated by it need to seek help.

If they are aroused by death then yes I agree with you. If they simply want to see the horrors of war.....I disagree.

	25-03-2003 10:44									#36
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Yes. Seeing sex on TV wont really give anything to the story. Seeing dead bodies has a shock factor associated with it

So your intention is to "shock" (ie, disgust) everyone into not watching the news at all? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

	25-03-2003 10:45									#37
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon I'm curious. Exactly how do you think Arab/Muslim nations would react if CNN/BBC or any of the other networks began acting as Western propaganda pieces and began showing the bodies of hundreds upon hundreds of Iraqi soldiers?

You see, THATS PROPAGANDA: I'm not going after showing the bodies. I'm going after giving the full story. And propaganda usually doesnt tell EVERYTHING

	25-03-2003 10:45									#38
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Asher So your intention is to "shock" (ie, disgust) everyone into not watching the news at all? Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

I could've made a "Now your just acting like a capitalist" joke, but I wont

	25-03-2003 10:46									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So by the same logic, every time a man is arrested for possession of child pornography we should air this material on the air to get the full story...

This is a false analogy. Almost every rational person agrees that child pornography is despicable. There is no dispute, we are not being asked to make a choice of whether to permit it or not. When we are talking about killing people I think we owe it to ourselves to be completely informed about what this really means.

An accurate analogy, using your example, would be if there was a debate to make child pornography legal. If that were the case I would certainly think that people should be allowed to clearly see what they would be liberalising. In the case of war, there is significant public debate, and it looks like the news media is favouring one side by not showing the horrors of war.

	25-03-2003 10:46									#40
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Suffering from ads?

Asher just trolled me and turned me into a ravenous typer. So I'm going to stop before I spend all night debating this

	25-03-2003 10:47									#41
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Agathon You know, if you are going to call people necrophiliacs, perhaps the mods should take an interest.

A word of warning on that note Asher. MtG left a post today that clearly mentioned patience will be short with insults on the forum for the next while. The mods are trigger happy with the war going on, and emotions sometimes running high.

	25-03-2003 10:47									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Yep. Thats fine. If some people dont wish to see the news, then when the warning says "WARNING - THE FOLLOWING IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING TO SOME", they can leave. Or whatever.

You're completely missing the point.

You and Agathon are trying to force-feed death and devastation to people because you both hope that it will discourage people from supporting the war. Admit your political motivations before you say anything farther, please.

The problem is, I *WANT* everyone to stay up to date on the conflict. I WANT everyone to know what's going on. If the photos become graphic to turn everyone off, you're compounding your problems because now you've got to deal with apathy on behalf of everyone since they don't know what's going on.

Again, for the people who want to get the "full shock factor" of seeing corpses (frankly it doesn't make it more shocking to me, I understand what death means), they can hop on Kazaa and see the VERY images Al Jazeera and other networks have shown.

You can even go and download the video of Bud Dwyer emptying the contents of his head at a press conference if it floats your boat.

Just don't force everyone to watch that crap.

	25-03-2003 10:48									#43
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quote: I know that they did show pictures of civilian casualties on the Beeb the other day - I have seen no such pictures on CNN or any North American network.

Maybe because it is incredibly distasteful to show those pictures on the air, and they are in no way newsworthy.

What is this obsession with showing corpses?!

	25-03-2003 10:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Just don't force everyone to watch that crap.

I'm not. They can switch off the TV if they'd like.

	25-03-2003 10:50									#45
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No Tass and I are just trying to get the media to do their damn job. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch anything. If people don't want to watch gruesome images they can do what the political right is always telling us: they can turn off their televisions when the warning appears.

	25-03-2003 10:51									#46
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Agathon In the case of war, there is significant public debate, and it looks like the news media is favouring one side by not showing the horrors of war.

Again, you're trying to use the death of the soldiers as a way to persue your political message.

It'd disgusting, despicable, and you should be absolutely ashamed.

Think of the families of those serving over there. Think of the children and the trauma seeing such carnage on TV would do to them. Just THINK, in general.

The people who want to see the full horrors of war, can. It's available. Just don't force everyone to see it.

	25-03-2003 10:52									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I'm not. They can switch off the TV if they'd like.

And you can download the carnage of Kazaa if you'd like.

	25-03-2003 10:52									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Again, for the people who want to get the "full shock factor" of seeing corpses (frankly it doesn't make it more shocking to me, I understand what death means), they can hop on Kazaa and see the VERY images Al Jazeera and other networks have shown.

1. You may understand what it means. But a lot of Americans DONT.

2. I doubt most people will go through the trouble. If you ask a teenager to go to school and behave, you'll probably get an answer such as "fuk uzorz!!!!"

Most people who dont know but want to (not REALLY want to, just want to ) know about it wont go on Kazaa

	25-03-2003 10:53									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And you can download the carnage of Kazaa if you'd like.

For those whom are obsessed, yes. But if you just have a mild interest, then keep your TV on when it says the following images may be disturbing.

Again, people arent going to go to Kazaa to get pictures of the news

	25-03-2003 10:53									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm giving my opinion on the issue of people who feel it necessary to see corpses on TV. If he finds it insulting, perhaps he should reexamine his desire to see death on millions of TV screens worldwide...

Have you ever seen someone die Asher, watched them take their last breath? It's not a pretty sight and it hurts like hell, but it's part of life. And you don't do justice to yourself by trying to hide from it. War is hell, and if someone wants to see the truth of it, that doesn't mean he/she is twisted in some way. It just means they aren't afraid of dealing with reality.

	25-03-2003 10:54									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon No Tass and I are just trying to get the media to do their damn job. Nobody is forcing anyone to watch anything. If people don't want to watch gruesome images they can do what the political right is always telling us: they can turn off their televisions when the warning appears.

For the LAST TIME -- the carnage is readily available online if you want to see it.

Most of us recognize why it's incredibly irresponsible to show the true horrors of war on TV.

As you said, nobody is forcing you to watch anything. If you don't like CNN, don't watch it. If you want to watch the carnage, go download it or watch a network that would show it on Al Jazeera.

Don't pollute the "clean" networks with carnage, you're just going to drive people away from watching it. And apathy is far more dangerous...

	25-03-2003 10:54									#52
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Asher Think of the families of those serving over there. Think of the children and the trauma seeing such carnage on TV would do to them. Just THINK, in general.

THERE IS A WARNING, ASHWER. THEY ARENT BEING FORCED TO SEE IT. THEY MAY ***TURN OFF THE TELEVISION***.

Your trolling me really bad......

	25-03-2003 10:55									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 1. You may understand what it means. But a lot of Americans DONT. 2. I doubt most people will go through the trouble. If you ask a teenager to go to school and behave, you'll probably get an answer such as "fuk uzorz!!!!" Most people who dont know but want to (not REALLY want to, just want to ) know about it wont go on Kazaa

We've come full-circle again, where you want to force-feed Americans carnage in a misguided attempt to promote your political position.

Shame on you.

	25-03-2003 10:55									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Asher For the LAST TIME -- the carnage is readily available online if you want to see it.

BUT MOST PEOPLE JUST DONT HAVE ENOUGH INTEREST TO TAKE ALL THAT TIME TO SEE IT.

Also, most people have 56ks. A 10 MB file would take forever to download.

	25-03-2003 10:56									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Asher We've come full-circle again, where you want to force-feed Americans carnage in a misguided attempt to promote your political position.

How unbiased of you Asher.

We've come full-circle again, where you want to deprive the American people of what it looks like to truely be in a war. You want to deprive them of knowing what is actually happening over there.

	25-03-2003 10:57									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Again, people arent going to go to Kazaa to get pictures of the news

I'd disagree -- do a search for American POWs and look at how many people downloaded it.

quote: THERE IS A WARNING, ASHWER. THEY ARENT BEING FORCED TO SEE IT. THEY MAY ***TURN OFF THE TELEVISION***. Your trolling me really bad......

You don't even understand what you're saying, it's getting kind of sad.

	25-03-2003 10:57									#57
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quote: they can turn off their televisions when the warning appears.

How many warnings do you see on CNN about 'violence'? Not many, CNN doesn't do that! I mean, it'd be like a bombing occuring in Israel and CNN decided to show the dead Israelis with blood dripping everywhere. Is that really necessary? CNN doesn't show that sort of stuff... it ain't newsworthy.

	25-03-2003 10:58									#58
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Sigh. I can't convince him, he can't convince me.

I propose we end the debate.

	25-03-2003 10:58									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I know that they did show pictures of civilian casualties on the Beeb the other day - I have seen no such pictures on CNN or any North American network. Maybe because it is incredibly distasteful to show those pictures on the air, and they are in no way newsworthy.

Of course they are newsworthy - they are telling us what really happens in war. This is something people need to know. I'm not saying they should be forced to watch it (although I think schoolkids should be forced to watch the drug films). I also think that everyone should watch the films of the concentration camps. This isn't because they turn me on (and if you say anything like that again I'll report it - I realise that name calling goes on here, but that's just sick) but because I think they are educational regarding what human beings can do to each other. No decent human being who has ever seen the holocaust films would ever stand for anything like that to be done in his name. Similarly, I doubt that pro-war sentiment would be so high if people were confronted with what war is actually like. War isn't glorious, it isn't a game, it isn't even aesthetically pleasing - it is an horrific nightmare and the worst thing in the world.

I agree, it is distasteful to air such pictures - war is distasteful. If people are to be informed about what is being done in their name, they ought also to be informed about the nasty things.

	25-03-2003 10:59									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: they can turn off their televisions when the warning appears. How many warnings do you see on CNN about 'violence'? Not many, CNN doesn't do that! .

And if they dont warn the people, then I dont support it being on the air.