25-03-2003 10:08									#1
	Who watches Al Jazeera? Full PM-box? Change here!

Has anyone managed to get onto Al Jazeera's English web site? (and no I'm not looking for the gruesome photos). It's just that I read this interesting article (link at bottom).

I tend to agree with this guy. I think it is unconscionable for CNN and other stations not to show the full horror of war. The only bad stuff I have seen was on the BBC and I was absolutely horrified at it. How dare American and Canadian networks refuse to show what is really happening.

http://www.reason.com/hod/tc032403.shtml

[This link does not lead to gruesome pictures]

	25-03-2003 10:09									#2
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children may be watching

	25-03-2003 10:09									#3
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I watch Al Jazeera. Over here in logan, utah its on channel 49.

	25-03-2003 10:12									#4
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I saw that dead Iraqi kid. It just didn't look real. I guess it is, but it just looks like a doll. Terrible.

Don't get me wrong I wish there was no war. No one should have to go through this. But I have little control over the situation.

You gotta admit that article makes Al Jazeer news look so much better. I would like to check it out, but I can't.

	25-03-2003 10:17									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I tend to agree with this guy. I think it is unconscionable for CNN and other stations not to show the full horror of war. The only bad stuff I have seen was on the BBC and I was absolutely horrified at it. How dare American and Canadian networks refuse to show what is really happening.

How utterly irresponsible of you.

If people have a fetish for seeing corpses and blood, there are many websites (and nowadays the P2P networks) so they can get off. They certainly should NOT show that crap on cable networks that are aired in public places, possibly in the presence of children, at all. There's absolutely nothing gained aside from trying to disgust everyone, which is not what the news networks are there for.



Have you said one rational thing, ever, in your existence on Apolyton?

	25-03-2003 10:17									#6
	Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Has anyone managed to get onto Al Jazeera's English web site? (and no I'm not looking for the gruesome photos). It's just that I read this interesting article (link at bottom).

I found their Arabic website. This may be useful, although I can't tell how official it is.

	25-03-2003 10:18									#7
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I've had timeout and 404 problems accessing both the Arabic and English sites from here in México, and from the US. If/when I can get it (not only during this war) it's one of the ME sites I pay attention to.

As far as bodies go, no, they're not particularly newsworthy. War casualties are gruesome, some very much so. It's an ugly reality, but much smaller than the larger scale issues. If you were going to be "balanced" in talking about the human costs, why not show victims of Iraqi executions, interrogations, gas victims from Halabja, vets of the Iran-Iraq war, etc. There's a lot of outrageous, sad, miserable, ugly, vicious human suffering and brutality to be found, no matter what course of action you advocate taking.

	25-03-2003 10:20									#8
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And that has never been CNN' style

They are just a bunch of talking heads. I haven't been watching much CNN

I only watch Fox news because they have the Sky news feeds which is much better than anything CNN or other American networks have.

	25-03-2003 10:24									#9
	Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Asher How utterly irresponsible of you. If people have a fetish for seeing corpses and blood, there are many websites (and nowadays the P2P networks) so they can get off. They certainly should NOT show that crap on cable networks that are aired in public places, possibly in the presence of children, at all. There's absolutely nothing gained aside from trying to disgust everyone, which is not what the news networks are there for. Have you said one rational thing, ever, in your existence on Apolyton?

Oh blah blah blah...

Typical rubbish from you. You seem to think that people have a right not to be disgusted over a right to hear and see the truth. The news media are supposed to show us what is happening. If we used this as a standard no-one would have ever watched 911. In fact people should see these things because its being done in their name. People who support war should know exactly what this means.

And there's a simple solution to your problem - screens in public areas can simply be turned off or switched to another channel.

	25-03-2003 10:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How dare American and Canadian networks refuse to show what is really happening. http://www.reason.com/hod/tc032403.shtml [This link does not lead to gruesome pictures]

The Canadian networks are showing it, or at least part of it was, on CBC. I saw the clip last night. They didn't show the bodies, but the prisoners making thier statements were broadcast, including the ones that were wounded. I can't be sure if it was the whole thing, but they haven't been as squeamish as the US media, that's for sure.

	25-03-2003 10:26									#11
	Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher How utterly irresponsible of you. If people have a fetish for seeing corpses and blood, there are many websites (and nowadays the P2P networks) so they can get off. They certainly should NOT show that crap on cable networks that are aired in public places, possibly in the presence of children, at all. There's absolutely nothing gained aside from trying to disgust everyone, which is not what the news networks are there for. Have you said one rational thing, ever, in your existence on Apolyton?

Nope. I believe the media has a responsibility to provide the WHOLE story, even if it includes seeing children be blown up (though they should give warning, if they can, before they show it).

There is heads, there is tails.....But theres a WHOLE LOT in between

	25-03-2003 10:26									#12
	Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Agathon And there's a simple solution to your problem - screens in public areas can simply be turned off or switched to another channel.

Nonsense -- there is absolutely nothing NEWSWORTHY of blood and corpses. We can be told numbers of losses, that's all that's needed.

Here's YOUR solution: You want to satisify your necrophelia fetish, hop on Kazaa and spare everyone else.

	25-03-2003 10:27									#13
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So, wait, CNN and BBC refuses to show gruesome corpses on both sides and you consider this WRONG?

	25-03-2003 10:27									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Willem The Canadian networks are showing it, or at least part of it was, on CBC. I saw the clip last night. They didn't show the bodies, but the prisoners making thier statements were broadcast, including the ones that were wounded. I can't be sure if it was the whole thing, but they haven't been as squeamish as the US media, that's for sure.

Um...the US media has shown the exact same thing (CNN in particular)...

	25-03-2003 10:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I've had timeout and 404 problems accessing both the Arabic and English sites from here in México, and from the US. If/when I can get it (not only during this war) it's one of the ME sites I pay attention to. As far as bodies go, no, they're not particularly newsworthy. War casualties are gruesome, some very much so. It's an ugly reality, but much smaller than the larger scale issues. If you were going to be "balanced" in talking about the human costs, why not show victims of Iraqi executions, interrogations, gas victims from Halabja, vets of the Iran-Iraq war, etc. There's a lot of outrageous, sad, miserable, ugly, vicious human suffering and brutality to be found, no matter what course of action you advocate taking.

I've seen the Halabja victims numerous times on television over here; and the Taliban carry-on on that soccer field. And I saw the 911 stuff every day for about 3 months. I have no objection to showing these things with the appropriate warnings. We live in a sanitised world, and we shouldn't if we care about the truth.

If the BBC can show these things, why can't CNN. My only conclusion is that it is a form of political censorship because it's obvious that they would aid the anti-war cause.

	25-03-2003 10:28									#16
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this isn't about dead bodies. No U.S. network should go around showing dead bodies.

But they should show live combat!!

Talking heads

Live combat

	25-03-2003 10:29									#17
	Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 Nope. I believe the media has a responsibility to provide the WHOLE story, even if it includes seeing children be blown up (though they should give warning, if they can, before they show it). There is heads, there is tails.....But theres a WHOLE LOT in between

Nice try...

The Media should report that kind of stuff, certainly.

It is NOT necessary to include gruesome and graphic photos of it. Again, if you need to see it to get off, go download them.

Spare everyone else who is a bit above that.

	25-03-2003 10:30									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

CNN Aaron brown is talking about airing some things right now on CNN

	25-03-2003 10:30									#19
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Asher Nonsense -- there is absolutely nothing NEWSWORTHY of blood and corpses. We can be told numbers of losses, that's all that's needed.

I disagree. Dead bodies must be shown in order to give the full story. Numbers just dont do justice.

quote: Here's YOUR solution: You want to satisify your necrophelia fetish, hop on Kazaa and spare everyone else.

HEY, debate the issues. Dont insult the person.

Edit: I'm acting more like Ming......This is horrible.....

	25-03-2003 10:30									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Nonsense -- there is absolutely nothing NEWSWORTHY of blood and corpses. We can be told numbers of losses, that's all that's needed. Here's YOUR solution: You want to satisify your necrophelia fetish, hop on Kazaa and spare everyone else.

You know, if you are going to call people necrophiliacs, perhaps the mods should take an interest.

	25-03-2003 10:31									#21
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You're the one who finds it necessary to see corpses.

I call them as I see them.

If you'll retract your statement wishing to see the corpses on TV I'll retract the necro statement.

	25-03-2003 10:32									#22
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who watches Al Jazeera? Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I disagree. Dead bodies must be shown in order to give the full story. Numbers just dont do justice.

So by the same logic, every time a man is arrested for possession of child pornography we should air this material on the air to get the full story...

	25-03-2003 10:33									#23
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quote: If you'll retract your statement wishing to see the corpses on TV I'll retract the necro statement.

One is giving an opinion about the issue, the other is insulting a poster.

If someone says 500 people died in an explosion, a lot of people have a tendency to dismiss it. They MIGHT be shocked by the number, but they really probably wont think about it much.

Now if they see dead bodies on TV (Of course, a warning will be given to viewers before they see the bodies), it just has much more of an impact. It serves justice and shows the TRUE story, not just the words of the story.

	25-03-2003 10:34									#24
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quote: Here's YOUR solution: You want to satisify your necrophelia fetish, hop on Kazaa and spare everyone else.

So true .

	25-03-2003 10:35									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 One is giving an opinion about the issue, the other is insulting a poster.

I'm giving my opinion on the issue of people who feel it necessary to see corpses on TV. If he finds it insulting, perhaps he should reexamine his desire to see death on millions of TV screens worldwide...

FYI

quote: nec·ro·phil·i·a ( P ) Pronunciation Key (nkr-fl-) also nec·rophi·lism (n-krf-lzm, n-) n. Obsessive fascination with death and corpses.

That CERTAINLY fits what's going on in this thread.

	25-03-2003 10:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Asher So by the same logic, every time a man is arrested for possession of child pornography we should air this material on the air to get the full story...

No, because child porn is not relevant because it is simply something you can get anywhere else. Maybe even the same picture.

Now if a real child was involved, I think the CHILD should be displayed. But when your talking about death and war....Everything should be shown.

	25-03-2003 10:39									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui So, wait, CNN and BBC refuses to show gruesome corpses on both sides and you consider this WRONG?

If we are talking about the bodies of US servicemen, then I don't know whether the Beeb showed these or not. I know that they did show pictures of civilian casualties on the Beeb the other day - I have seen no such pictures on CNN or any North American network. I'm not saying that there should be an endless parade of decapitated bodies, but if the news media are going to show bombs being dropped, they at least should show what they do.

When I was at school we had to watch graphic films about the dangers of smoking and drug abuse. This was to inform us, so that we knew what we were getting into if we tried them. I think the same goes for war - if it is presented as a video game people will treat it like one. No attempts to sanitise a war should ever be made - censorship it simply makes it easier for the horror to take place - and any news organisation that refuses to show exactly what happens in war is complicit in furthering future wars. After all if it is OK for CNN to show pictures of aircraft with fuel-air bombs and cluster bombs I think they have an obligation to show exactly what these things are designed to do and the effects that they have.

When I was a boy I used to have pictures of MiG 29s, A-10s and F-18s on my wall. I can't look at them the same way again after seeing what they do to human beings. I guess some people just don't feel that way.

	25-03-2003 10:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm giving my opinion on the issue of people who feel it necessary to see corpses on TV. If he finds it insulting, perhaps he should reexamine his desire to see death on millions of TV screens worldwide...

But you see, its NOT relevant. Were talking about showing corpses on TV, not about individual posters.

quote: That CERTAINLY fits what's going on in this thread.

I personally have no desire to see such images on TV. But to give the full story.........It must be shown.

	25-03-2003 10:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 No, because child porn is not relevant because it is simply something you can get anywhere else. Maybe even the same picture.

EXACTLY.
Now go type in relevant keywords in Kazaa and see what comes up.

Thanks Tass.

quote: Now if a real child was involved, I think the CHILD should be displayed.

LOL
Are you kidding?

You think in the case of a man with child pornography the CHILD should have his/her face plastered on TV screens worldwide?

	25-03-2003 10:41									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Tassadar5000 I personally have no desire to see such images on TV. But to give the full story.........It must be shown.

People watch TV because they want to. Frankly if CNN was showing corpses on there regularly I sure as hell wouldn't watch it -- I don't want to see that crap.

I'm sure I'm not alone, in your righteous ill-planned idea to show the full horrors of war on TV you're forgetting you're going to probably alienate and turn off far more people than you fascinate. And the people who become fascinated by it need to seek help.