27-03-2003 01:15									#31
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: US losing faith in Canada Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Willem In case you haven't noticed, the UN has been badly fractured, with the US questioning it's relevancy. It's been a diplomatic battle between the US and the UN essentialy. We're letting the world know which side we're on.

UNSC has proven itself to be completely and totally useless.

The UN is only useful with organizations like UNICEF.

	27-03-2003 01:16									#32
	Re: Canadian hypocrissy Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 How does supporting France's unilateral veto of any attempt to bring Saddam to compliance support the UN?

We're simply working within the current organization of the UN. Whether or not that organization is effective or not is a different subject. France has a veto; that's just the rules, and we wish to abide by those rules.

	27-03-2003 01:17									#33
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America figured out that Russia, Germany, and France didn't make a damned bit of difference; if you want to get right down to it.

All of the named have their little secret agendas going.
But, let's consult their opinion.

	27-03-2003 01:19									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sava My suspicion is that a lot of these "Anti-Ameicans" are simply "Anti-Bush". I could be wrong though. I probably am... oh hell, I'll save you guys the trouble. I"M WRONG

No. You are wrong about being wrong.

And many of us are not even Anti-Bush. There is a sentiment that this is not even in the Americans own self interest to be in Iraq.

The US Ambassador was not being very diplomatic for a diplomat. Not the first time either. Compiling a list of anti-Canadian Americans would be at least as easy as anti-US Canadian remarks. But I hope neither is representative of most people on either side of the border.

	27-03-2003 01:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Sava My suspicion is that a lot of these "Anti-Ameicans" are simply "Anti-Bush". I could be wrong though. I probably am... oh hell, I'll save you guys the trouble. I"M WRONG

No you're not wrong. Bush is not well liked here. In fact we like him less than any president that I can remember, and I've been around for awhile. We liked Clinton, we can't stand Bush.

	27-03-2003 01:20									#36
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Bush doesn't have his own agenda?

	27-03-2003 01:21									#37
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Unilateral? Russia also said it was going to veto, and the US couldn't even muster enough votes for the ultimatum to pass.

Nice spin Che.

The neutral six said they wouldn't vote if France would Veto, and you claim the US "didn't have the votes".

If they didn't why did France (60 billion deals with Saddam) and Russia (owed 7 billion by Saddam) BOTH threaten vetoes?

If the US didn't have the votes, they wouldn't have bothered, now would they.

	27-03-2003 01:23									#38
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Oh and sorry about my first post. I keep forgetting that people come here to argue about things rather than to think about them.

	27-03-2003 01:23									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Willem We're simply working within the current organization of the UN. Whether or not that organization is effective or not is a different subject. France has a veto; that's just the rules, and we wish to abide by those rules.

So, you say "to hell with the SPIRT of the law, let's stick to the LETTER."

That is very dangerous you know, you can justify all kinds of things doing that.

	27-03-2003 01:25									#40
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 Did u forget the other 49 countires that support the war.

Yeah right! Most of them are just in it looking for financial aid from the US, and the rest are afraid to admit they're part of it. A short while ago the Dutch Defence Minister complained when one of his officers appeared in a press photo. Now that's really showing support! Like Cellucci said, we're helping indirectly more than most of the other nations. And we've already committed to help clean up afterwards exactly like Japan, yet I don't hear the Americans screaming about how they're not doing their part.

	27-03-2003 01:34									#41
	Re: Re: Re: Canadian hypocrissy Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 So, you say "to hell with the SPIRT of the law, let's stick to the LETTER." That is very dangerous you know, you can justify all kinds of things doing that.

That depends on whether it's a good law or not. And we think that forbidding one nation to invade another unilaterally is a good one. On that issue yes, we wish to stick to the letter of the law.

	27-03-2003 01:42									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Willem That depends on whether it's a good law or not. And we think that forbidding one nation to invade another unilaterally is a good one. On that issue yes, we wish to stick to the letter of the law.

That's very interesting, but it wasn't the issue.

The issue was whether the UN would uphold it's own resolutions.

	27-03-2003 01:46									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Willem If it would have been cleared in the Security Council, we would have been behind you 100%.

Not likely given Cretin's decision to send the Canadian army to Afghanistan before the UNSC had fully resolved the matter.

	27-03-2003 01:49									#44
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49 countires have publically said they support the war, other have no shown public support.

	27-03-2003 01:54									#45
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Other than our natural allies, most are simply turncoats that want to be in the US's good graces. Look at Bulgaria for Pete's Sake. Pro-Nazi, when Germany was the big boy on the block... pro-Soviet after they took power... and now Pro-US. Some allies

But the situation is complicated and each country supports the US for its own reasons. Only Britain and Australia support the US because they feel it's the right thing to do.

	27-03-2003 01:54									#46
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 Did u forget the other 49 countires that support the war.

Can anyone actually name those countries, and what actual support they are providing.

	27-03-2003 02:17									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Chris 62 The issue was whether the UN would uphold it's own resolutions.

Not from our perspective.

	27-03-2003 02:20									#48
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Not all the Canadians disagree with Bush.

I'm one who is not anti-Bush, but I disagree with the reasons for starting this war.

It's obvious why Canadians hate Bush. He's a right wing Texan.

	27-03-2003 02:21									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Not likely given Cretin's decision to send the Canadian army to Afghanistan before the UNSC had fully resolved the matter.

That was a completely different situation. We sided with the US on that one; it was a defensive strike on a country that, perhaps indirecty, attacked yours. Again we were following the guidelines of international law.

	27-03-2003 02:27									#50
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Canadian hypocrissy Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Willem Not from our perspective.

PS If you were with a friend and he decided to steal a car, would you automatically go along with it?

	27-03-2003 02:31									#51
	Re: US losing faith in Canada Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher http://www.canada.com/national/feat...88-1ACB9C798076 Will Canada's position of the far further hurt relations between the two nations, already strained by the Liberal's general ineptitude?

Cellucci's a ****.

That's pretty much what I got from his news conference.

What's the US going to do? Impose unfair tarriffs on softwood lumber and wheat, and refuse to prosecute those who act recklessly, resulting in the deaths of our soldiers?

	27-03-2003 02:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Willem That was a completely different situation.

How so? It was an action taken by your PM that effectively said no to participation on the Iraq issue.

	27-03-2003 02:43									#53
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Because the US was attacked by people living in Afghanistan with the compliance (tacit, at least) of the de facto government.

Action in Afghanistan was actually self-defense and required no SC resolution. Action in Iraq is only self-defense in the most tortured of explanations.

	27-03-2003 02:46									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc How so? It was an action taken by your PM that effectively said no to participation on the Iraq issue.

Huh? How does us sending troops to Afghanistan have anything to do with our participation in Iraq? Sorry, but I don't follow your leap in logic. We were in Afghanistan before Iraq even became an issue, the two are completely unrelated.

	27-03-2003 02:46									#55
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I think the Americans "losing faith" in the Canadians has a similar explanation as the Americans hating the French. Both peoples have been mildly made fun of for decades. Be that a cause or a consequence, Canucks and French also had many jokes about the Yanks.

I think these jokes include a belief, to some extent, the countries are inferior to the US, and you cannot expect to be hindered by them. At least, I feel that spirit in the many jokes the French have towards the Belgians, I'm nearly sure all countries have similar jokes towards an "inferior" neighbour.

Now that the Americans see they are not supported by most foreign nations, it is normal they turn to their usual laughingstock to stress-out. Their opposition to the US comes as a surprise, and a clear disappointment. I think that explains why France is hated in the US today, and not Germany. I think that explains why the Yanks "lose faith" in Canada, and not Japan.

	27-03-2003 03:00									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Willem Huh? How does us sending troops to Afghanistan have anything to do with our participation in Iraq?

quote: OTTAWA - Defence Minister John McCallum has ruled out sending Canadian ground troops to any war on Iraq. McCallum confirmed Thursday that the government's recent commitment of peacekeepers to Afghanistan will prevent it from sending ground forces anywhere else for at least a year.

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/27/mccallum030227

We also have this post from Frogger: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...r=8#post1731349

	27-03-2003 03:04									#57
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quote: Oh and sorry about my first post. I keep forgetting that people come here to argue about things rather than to think about them.

Debate here has nothing to do with thinking. Instead of coming up with coherent arguments with substantial proof to persuade your opponents view point you instead bombard them with articles from obviously biased sources and quotes taken out of context. Its more of a pissing contest to see how many 'sources' and quotes you can dish out in a 24 hour period. The one with the most (regardless of content) wins.

	27-03-2003 03:13									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc quote: OTTAWA - Defence Minister John McCallum has ruled out sending Canadian ground troops to any war on Iraq. McCallum confirmed Thursday that the government's recent commitment of peacekeepers to Afghanistan will prevent it from sending ground forces anywhere else for at least a year. http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/27/mccallum030227 We also have this post from Frogger: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...r=8#post1731349

What's your point?

The point is more valid than ever. We aren't trying to offend the US, but this war is wrong and we won't be taking part.

	27-03-2003 03:13									#59
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quote: Can anyone actually name those countries, and what actual support they are providing.

Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, FYROM, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom and Uzbekistan, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Kuwait, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Palau, Portugal, Rwanda, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Uganda

	27-03-2003 03:15									#60
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DD: what the hell?

You'll have to outline your argument because you aren't making any sense. You're arguing that we should be involved in Iraq because we were in Afghanistan or that we're making a commitment to Afghanistan in order to avoid making a commitment to Iraq?

The first is spurious, the second is undoubtable.