28-03-2003 21:18									#1
	Iraqi tactics - Post your critics here Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

In an effort for equal representation:

I'll start by criticising them for putting civilian clothes over their uniforms as well as for imbeddng themselves in cities, therefore putting civilians at risk.



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	28-03-2003 21:29									#2
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Putting civilians at risk is an integral part of their tactics...

	28-03-2003 21:33									#3
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yeah their only hope for surviving the next day is hidding in the cities and pretending they are civilians. They cant match US airpower, so they have to hide in places were there are lots of civilians.

	28-03-2003 21:33									#4
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That certainly makes it more acceptable.

	28-03-2003 21:35									#5
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IF Iraq had airpower, US wouldn't have it so easy anymore...

	28-03-2003 21:42									#7
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Iraqi guerrilla tactics are pretty good, from a military point of view. Ethically they are quite nasty, but AFAIK not prohibited by the Geneva treaty, apart from using civilians as shields.

Now, the two armoured columns they sent out of the cities, those were plain stupid. The tanks that are now destroyed could have caused a lot of grief to the coalition forces if they were dug in prepared positions instead.

	28-03-2003 21:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand That certainly makes it more acceptable.

I find Iraqi tactics to range from questionable to blatantly unacceptable but they seem to be effective.

By effective I mean that their tactics are probably the best chance they have to maximize US casualties while slowing the advance and attempting to sway world opinion. Facing superior technology and firepower they have chosen perhaps the best available options to them.

Perhaps they should have knocked down a few key bridges but other than that, I see little else they could have done to slow the advance so far.

	28-03-2003 21:44									#9
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quote: I'll start by criticising them for putting civilian clothes over their uniforms as well as for imbeddng themselves in cities, therefore putting civilians at risk.

Of course it´s absolutely brutal, but from the Saddam´s POV it makes sense. They can´t match coalition troops in open battle, so they´re trying dirty tricks. One can only hope that is doesn´t cost too many civilian lives.

OTOH one of the most stupid things I saw was the move of those 14 (?) Iraqi tanks (I heard T54´s) south of Basra - did they really think they could achieve anything against those British Challengers? This looked like a suicidal move from the very start...

	28-03-2003 21:49									#10
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I would set up anti tank guns in bunkers arround the cities and wait for the American tanks to come into range and try to take them out with that. Also try setting up machine guns as well to try to take them out when they start to advance toward the city. I would also place snipers in as many buildings as I could to try to pick the troops off one by one.

	28-03-2003 21:57									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Jack_www I would set up anti tank guns in bunkers arround the cities and wait for the American tanks to come into range and try to take them out with that. Also try setting up machine guns as well to try to take them out when they start to advance toward the city. I would also place snipers in as many buildings as I could to try to pick the troops off one by one.

These are all things that I assume they have done in their current tactics. My assumption is that the US will find a small tank, RPG or machine gun emplacement around every corner. Even in cities I believe that major concentrations of defenses would be an error given the possibilities of precision bombing. The Iraqis will also use subterranean defenses. US troops will never know when someone might be in tunnels and pop up unexpectedly.

Also are there any evidence of major minefields on land ??

	28-03-2003 22:18									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Jaakko Ethically they are quite nasty, but AFAIK not prohibited by the Geneva treaty, apart from using civilians as shields.

We also have the feigned surrenders and probably undertaking attacks in civilian dress.

	28-03-2003 22:26									#13
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No "probably" to it.

	28-03-2003 23:02									#14
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From an effectiveness standpoint, Iraqi tactics seem to have been decent so far. Would probably have taken a more scorched-earth approach in Saddam's shoes if anything.

	28-03-2003 23:03									#15
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He probably was planning on it, but the US stopped the worst capabilities (oil wells, dams).

	28-03-2003 23:07									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko From an effectiveness standpoint, Iraqi tactics seem to have been decent so far. Would probably have taken a more scorched-earth approach in Saddam's shoes if anything.

Yeah, Saddam's not so bad. Sure he's using civilians as shields and torturing POWs, but he hasn't used nerve gas yet. He's alright in my book.

	28-03-2003 23:28									#17
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Militarilly speaking, trying to attack US forces from pickup trucks and other lgith vehicles armed with machineguns is a waste of men and resources. They also seem to be moving a lot at times when it simly invites thier destruction.

As or all the guerrila and irregular tactics being used, as well as those that put civilains at risk: they are imoral, but just the thing this regime has to do to survive and increase the political causes for the US, so as far as tactics that will help you go, they are "sound".

	28-03-2003 23:41									#18
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How about dressing up as US and UK soldiers so you can shoot civilians? Is that something a regime should do to survive?

	28-03-2003 23:42									#19
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc We also have the feigned surrenders and probably undertaking attacks in civilian dress.

Yeah, I was referring to those as well. It seems that troops undertaking such tactics don't necessarily qualify for POW status, but otherwise it's a legitimate tactic for a defending guerrilla force.

At least that was the opinion of several articles I read, but I'm not certain that it's true. In fact some commentary on the subject would be interesting.

	28-03-2003 23:46									#20
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So a question goes to those that think Hussein is doing what is required, even if it means hiding as Civilians.

What will be your opinion when Coalition Command decides enough is enough, and is less discriminate in their fire?

	28-03-2003 23:51									#21
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If we drop a acuple nukes on them, then everything will be fine

	28-03-2003 23:54									#22
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i've stated this a thousand times. "rules of war" is perhaps the biggest oxymoron i have ever heard.

when it comes to the bottom line, everything looks out for it's own survival. whether it be a life, a species, or in this case, a regime.

if the Iraqis want to fight, they're going to fight on their terms.

We can sit on high and criticize them for using dirty tricks, only because we have the upper hand. everybody knows if the Iraqis and the Americans / British met face to face in a "clean, formal war", the Iraqis would lose hands down, and the allies would probably take very few casualities.

The Iraqis are dying. they know they can't win. they're just doing whatever they can to stay alive, and to hurt their killers as much as possible before they die.

i'm sure America would do the same thing if we were in a similiar suitation, but we have never been in one. One could argue the Revolutionary War, but even then, we weren't completely outclassed by the Brits. And i'm sure if you looked hard enough, you would find Americans wearing civilian clothing (whether it be a ruse, or simply because they don't have uniforms), whatever.

Back then, wars were much more formal anyway. Know why? because they were mostly fought between white people. it was infighting. we are all brothers at heart.

when the "differences" in the opposing sides get larger and larger, the people don't see eachother as brothers anymore. we are the infadels, they are the butchers of baghdad.

A Brit didn't really want to see a Yankee die back in the revolutionary war, but it had to be done. It was done as "clean cut" as possible.

Nowadays, anyone will do anything to survive.

	28-03-2003 23:56									#23
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand So a question goes to those that think Hussein is doing what is required, even if it means hiding as Civilians. What will be your opinion when Coalition Command decides enough is enough, and is less discriminate in their fire?

Saddam will try every dirty trick in the book to slow down the Coalition, as every cornered animal does. And it does not help that he is a brutal dictator to boot. It's naive to believe otherwise.

And when Coalition Command decided to be less discriminating, they will suffer the mother of all PR defeats. Not only will Iraqi resistance stiffen, it will further sour the US' relations with other Arab countries, and might even result in the fall of pro-US governments in the region.

	28-03-2003 23:56									#24
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By the way, the irregular forces have a name now. They're "terrorist death squads", according to Gen. Brooks in Qatar.

	28-03-2003 23:56									#25
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Edit part 2, to fix what my flying phalanges messed up, then my inabilty to spell.
Sorry about that, UberKrux.




No, it's not, UberKrux.

And why aren't the enviromentalist groups banging their heads over all the pollution Hussein is causing, I'm reminded.

Last edited by SlowwHand on 29-03-2003 at 00:11

	29-03-2003 00:03									#26
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand No, it's not, UberCrud. And why aren't the enviromentalist groups banging their heads over all the pollution Hussein is causing, I'm reminded.

oh, i love that too. it's becaus saddam is the innocent victim of american imperialism remember?

	29-03-2003 00:16									#27
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand And why aren't the enviromentalist groups banging their heads over all the pollution Hussein is causing, I'm reminded.

Maybe because Saddam isn't the leader of a highly industrialized western country whose leadership is committing itself to some measure of environmental protection?

Or maybe it's just because some idiots can't see that if you're going to take the moral high road on something, you'd better back it up, and that just because there are worse offenders out there, your actions shouldn't be held to scrutiny.

	29-03-2003 00:31									#28
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What's your point?

	29-03-2003 01:08									#29
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Iraq's main failing so far has been to fail to totally blow up the bridges. They've damaged some, but not critically. I'd like to know where their airforce is, as well.

They should also have tried to seize that downed Apache and tried to fix it, or failing that, flogged it on the international black market.

The faulty english of the interviewer of the POWs was not up to scratch. They should have got a better speaker to do the interviews.

	29-03-2003 01:15									#30
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I haven't completely figured out their strategy yet, I refuse to believe that they do the obvious thing, lure coalition forces to fight with their terms, keep out from open desert battles and focus ambusing convoys and waiting for battle in cities.. This is too obvious, so I'm still waiting for their special winning strategies. They will fail, but I still wonder..

They are doing some guerilla tactics, using civilian clothes and those things, I think it's ok. Don't take me wrong here, I don't mean it's good that they kill coalition troops, but if we discuss about their tactics, I think it's the thing to do. They need to continue doing this, get those small victories. If I was them, I'd try even bolder and nastier tricks. But my answer is that I'm still expecting their surprise tactics and them to reveal what they are really trying to do to win this.