06-05-2003 14:18									#31
	Full PM-box? Change here!

they don't have the source code? shoudln't activision be the "owner" of it?

	06-05-2003 14:40									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Huh? That's wierd. I don't really know how these things work, but I'm sure the programmers all signed contracts agreeing not to let on any of Activisions secrets, including the CTP2 source code, so getting it from them might be tough. Besides, I'd be surprised if any of them still had it - it was a project they worked on relatively long ago.

Last edited by J Bytheway on 06-05-2003 at 14:46

	06-05-2003 16:46									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I was afraid that that might be the case -- I warned about it a long, long time ago but noone believed that that would be possible.

They gave up support for this game quite soon after release, they've been through a couple of reorganisations and quit software development entirely, so it's very well possible the code was simply thrown out at some point as there was no use in keeping it. Or it may still be there but there's noone left at Activision who could possibly know where it is.

Someone could indeed try contacting Winnie Lee (she still posts here from time to time, saw here commenting on the latest column just a few days ago), David Ray or someone else, but as John said, not much chance they will be willing and/or able to help...

	06-05-2003 16:53									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

The Big Mc,
Who exactly at Activision have you been talking to? I wanna do a news item on this but could do with a source of that statement. Just some tech support guy or someone in particular?

	06-05-2003 21:59									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Locutus The Big Mc, Who exactly at Activision have you been talking to? I wanna do a news item on this but could do with a source of that statement. Just some tech support guy or someone in particular?

Yes that would be really interesting if it was a tech supprt guy, so if yes then we could have a chance, actual also a way to pass a request along to the dustbin. So before this should be posted I want to see a hard proof.

-Martin

	07-05-2003 14:35									#36
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

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We will assume your issue has been resolved if we do not hear from you
within 96 hours.
Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

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Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
Re: I can't download anything from the ctp2 download page can you help! Itkeeps
... [Incident: 030402-000003]


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Ismael Garcia) - 05/06/2003 10:02 AM
Hello,

Unfortunately I've hit a brick wall on this. Even though we published the
game and developed it in house, the developers (programmers) no longer work for
Activision so I can't ask them about any of the games assets. The producers
have all moved on as well so there is not much left to work on here. I'm sorry
that can't provide you with anything to work with but we just don't have that
information anymore.

Customer - 05/06/2003 02:20 AM
>Could you find anything from the game unused pictures for example.
>

Response (Ismael Garcia) - 05/01/2003 01:17 PM
Hello,

I did some looking around for the programmers of the game and they are no
longer employed by Activision. The last thing I found was for David Ray who
also worked on Ice Windale for Black Isle Studios. We do not have any source
code so I figure that the programmers are the way to go. You may want to
contact Black Isle studios for help in contacting David Ray. I hope this
helped.

Customer - 05/01/2003 11:35 AM
>I am acting on the behalf of that community.
>

Response (Ismael Garcia) - 05/01/2003 11:31 AM
Hello,

You can go to http://apolyton.net/ctp2/ for some resources that may help
you alter the game. There are also some 3rd party patches made by the
community.

Response (Ismael Garcia) - 05/01/2003 11:13 AM
Hello,

You can go to http://apolyton.net/ctp2/ for some resources that may help
you alter the game. There are also some 3rd party patches made by the
community.

Customer - 05/01/2003 03:05 AM
>Thank you for passing on my request for the source code and look forward to
>getting a response form you after the week end.
>

Response (Kirk McNesby) - 04/30/2003 09:11 AM
Hi,

Our support does not allocate your incident to a specific person. All emails go
into a queue which are then answered by whoever is available first. This
ensures the fastest response time possible (and a fair distribution of the
work).

Rarely will companies open the source code for a game to the public. I can pass
along your request however.

Customer - 04/30/2003 04:50 AM
>Well my question was for help with bugs in the game as well as missing
>graphics.

I first ask a few weeks ago but went on holiday over Easter. The problem was
I got passed around a bit before Easter.

And my question was why have I been transferred to some one else.

The last person said that no modes were coming out . But before I can ask a
second question I get passed around and have to talk to some one else.

The second request I was going to give ones for the source code and files to
be made public domain. As activision have little in the way of commercial
use for them now. So that the greater internet community could at least
attempt to rectify some of these bugs.

Thank you

>

Response (Kirk McNesby) - 04/28/2003 12:23 PM
Hi,

I'm not sure exactly what your question is at this point. Please restate it.

Customer - 04/28/2003 09:50 AM
Incident created due to reply to expired incident 030402-000003.

>can somebody please answer my question.
>


Question Reference #030428-000031
---------------------------------------------------------------
Platform: PC
Title: Call to Power II
Contact Information: the_big_mc1@hotmail.com
Date Created: 04/28/2003 09:50 AM
Last Updated: 05/06/2003 10:02 AM
Status: Waiting

Explanation
---------------------------------------------------------------




Ismael Garcia
Activision Customer Support Representative

	08-05-2003 03:47									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

My 2 cents worth here as well.

When Ctp2 first came out, there was a lot of multi player interest and I participated in an intense on line league competition. It was great fun, nearly got me divorced. Then someone discovered a rush buy bug in multiplayer, if you rush bought during your opponents turn, you could then change the item and it would still give it to you, so you could rush buy a warrior and change it to a settler or a settler and change it to a wonder.

When everyone complained to Activision, they refused to do anything. I personally sent a email querie and got back an automated message saying they are no longer supporting the game and I would not get any help.

At the time, I thought of demanding a refund and know several leaguers did claim and get refunds from the place they bought the game. No one wanted too play for points anymore and the league collapsed.

I was so pissed off with Activision that I vowed never to buy another Activision game. I have also seen other adverse comments about Activisions "customer support".

Maybe things havnt changed that much at Activision.

Each time I have a senior moment (temporary dementure) and play Civ 3 again for 10 minutes, I think what an opportunity Activision have stuffed to really produce the ultimate Civ game using CTP2 as the base.

Seems like someone at Activision threw the goose that could have laid a golden egg out without bothering to see what it could do. F@#**##its.

	08-05-2003 16:59									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Now now no swearing.

	08-05-2003 19:06									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sorry, Having another senior moment.

	08-05-2003 20:59									#40
	Got spare money?

No its not for me but you never know how old some new members can be.

	10-05-2003 03:45									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I hope Locutus includes a copy of the transcript of my above post in his news, maybe he could also sent to "Inactivision' or was that "Stupidvision".

	10-05-2003 18:29									#42
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I think Joe Rumsey would be the one to go to on this.

	12-05-2003 20:39									#43
	Remove this text

who is Joe Rumsey

	13-05-2003 00:13									#44
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc who is Joe Rumsey

Joe Rumsey also known as Mr Ogre, he was the CTP2 lead designer and is the author of the slic documentation.

In this thread Vel had the idea to buy the source code. And Peter wondered if one of the game designers still work at Activision:

quote: I think Dan Hagerty (one of the game designers) still works for Activision. At least he did last March: http://pc.ign.com/articles/356/356030p1.html It wouldn't hurt to ask him what he thinks of the idea anyway. edit: Bloody advertising! Follow the continue to interview button at the top of the page.

And by the way don't forget to vote in the Apolyton Hall of Fame: May 2003.

-Martin

	13-05-2003 13:56									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I have read the tread and nothing seems to have come form it.

	13-05-2003 21:16									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc I have read the tread and nothing seems to have come form it.

I know that there does not came anything from it. The point is that Dan Hagerty could be of bigger help then Joe Rumsey, presuming Dan still works for Activision.

-Martin

	14-05-2003 13:15									#47
	Get a bigger avatar today!

yes but how the hell do i get to him.

	16-05-2003 20:36									#48
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc yes but how the hell do i get to him.

You could ask the tech guy at Activision Ismael Garcia, he tried to find any programmers or anyone else who were involved in the game. To make shure that the guys know what you are talking about and what was said, you should include the whole e-mail correspodence with Activision you posted in this thread. If you are passed again and the guy can't help you, you have to insest on talking to Ismael Garcia about the issure or better give them the hint that Ismael Garcia already knows what about you are talking. And remember if they come again with their "time saving" reply queue that it does not save time if a guy replies who has no idea about the problem.

-Martin

	17-05-2003 20:08									#49
	Support Apolyton

or Google "Joe Rumsey Ogre" and find an email address. He's "ogre@" many different email addresses

	17-05-2003 21:43									#50
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat or Google "Joe Rumsey Ogre" and find an email address. He's "ogre@" many different email addresses

Yeah, but probably most of these e-mail addresses are invalid, out of date. I tried to access their servers, you know the stuff that follows the @, only one of these pages are still something like valid, but a trial won't hurt. By the way this way you can get to know something about the CTP2 team.

-Martin

	19-05-2003 20:40									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I forwarded the request for several names raised in the form but activision did not respond so I had to send it again

	19-05-2003 22:19									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc I forwarded the request for several names raised in the form but activision did not respond so I had to send it again

Yeah the guys are being paid to respond.

-Martin

	20-05-2003 00:04									#53
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Poor guys! They probably don't know what the hell is going on.......

[Activision tech support office]

'Yeah it another of those emails about some game called 'Call the powder2'.....keep asking for source code(something to put on BigMC's burger?) or the contacts of a bunch of people i didn't know even existed. Yeah i'm trying to ignore them but they just won't stop.....this Call the powder thing is disturbing my sleep, i'm getting nightmares about it, you know what it is? No me neither, they mention TBS and 'Sprites', sounds like blackmagic or vodoo to me. We're full 3D FPS bumpmapped surround sound now aren't we?..........do ya know, i sort of wish i knew what they were going on about...........'

Poor activision.

	20-05-2003 00:47									#54
	Support Apolyton

its war

	20-05-2003 01:39									#55
	Inflate your Upload Space

You guys obviously never worked on a helpdesk...

But good luck However unlikely, I hope you hit the jackpot...

	21-05-2003 13:07									#56
	Put an end to popups!

They want me to contact the legal department any advise

	21-05-2003 15:39									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Treat it like in-game diplomacy.

You want the source code, in return you can:
(in order of cost to you/us)

1/ Offer to Withdraw: I bet they're fed up of you right now - Offer to leave them alone for ever and ever amen. Offer to get all their CtP2-related email forwarded to you or Locutus.

2/ Offer Peace: We won't ever slander their good name again, and will endeavour as a community where possible to praise Activision beyond all recognition of past complaints for this selfless act of source-donation.

3/ Offer Gold: Possibly a last resort, but I imagine we can stump up a fair bit of money among us (get Vel back on the case again ) if they absolutely won't give it away.

4/ Offer City: Offer them a lifetime's dedicated work in their Customer Service division.


Then if all else fails, threaten...

1/ Trade Embargo: Mass internet campaign to boycott Activision Games. (HARD)

2/ To Destroy City: Take out the CEO with a sniper rifle. (VERY HARD)

3/ War: Break into the Activision system, steal source code, reformat their hard drives...

	21-05-2003 15:57									#58
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Well I had a plan of action

1/ draft a letter to the legal department

2/ post it on apolyton for all to admire

3/ post it

4 / never get a reply

5/ keep posting it every week for the next 70 years (like in sorshanck redemption)

6/ Get a bit upset and follow what the wombat said several years ago

	21-05-2003 16:05									#59
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: 1/ Offer to Withdraw: I bet they're fed up of you right now - Offer to leave them alone for ever and ever amen. Offer to get all their CtP2-related email forwarded to you or Locutus.

Don’t we all reedy do this.:d

	21-05-2003 18:26									#60
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc They want me to contact the legal department any advise

I don't understand why they want you to contact their legal department when they told you they don't have the source code.

Have they suddenly realized that telling you they don't have the source code anymore won't stop you from harassing them?

Do they want to sue you?

Do they want to conclude an agreement?

I can't help thinking that this is mere fantasy... In this world where money and profits rule I don't see why they would release the SC without any counterpart...

However, here are my 2 cents of a € advices (at least I would write the letter like this):

- Imagine that the guy that will read your letter does not know what is CtP2 and perhaps does not even know what is a Source Code, I would start the letter by a brief history of CtP2 and some lighlty flattering comments.

"In 1999, your company released the game Call to Power II on the market. Though the game was not as successfull as expected by your company it nonetheless attracted a strong core of active followers dedicated to the support and improvement of the original game that is still far ahead from its competitors."

- The reader certainly does not know what Apolyton is nor that there is a dedicated Apolyton CtP II community... Once again I would briefly explain what it is all about :

"The Apolyton Civilization Site is a Website dedicated to all things related to empire building computer games and host a strong and united community of Call to Power II players since 1999. As far as Call to Power II is concerned our international community is offering support to the gamers and has already produced several developments of the original concepts that have earned the attention of many gamers around the world. One of the greatest strength of Call to Power II is that through a language called SLIC, designed and released by your company, almost every aspects of the game can be modified and used to improve the concepts of the game."

- I would now explain why we need the Source Code and what is this Source code:

"Still our efforts are limited by the fact some aspects of the game are beyond the range of the SLIC language. Important parts of the game are actually hard coded into what is called the Source Code which is the very heart of the game."

- Now I would tell them that we would like the SC and what we would do with it:

"As Call to Power II is no more supported and marketted by your company we would like to know how to obtain its Source Code in order to carry on the support efficiently and adapt the core parts of what we consider as the greatest empire building computer game ever designed. The Source Code would allow us to give this game the long life it deserves and would greatly help us renew the interest of a dedicated community of players that has constantly supported the game in spite of its mitigated commercial success."

- I would now tell them we don't want to earn money from this Source Code as this could refrain them from releasing it:

"I would like to remind you it has never been in the intent of the Apolyton Call to Power II community and its members to earn any profits from the support and adaptation of this game and that obtaining the Source Code would not change our goals."

- I would now end with the well known formulas I won't write here as they are very different from country to country...


This is how I would write the letter to Activision... I hope it will help you Big Mc.