05-04-2003 07:19									#61
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I have to agree there. GT, Being Australian look at the Greens. They are the closest thing we have to Social Democrats. This is what I am trying to achieve.

Now get where I am comming from. I AM NOT A DICTATOR. THE US IS JUST ANTI- SOCIALIST

	05-04-2003 07:20									#62
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: True, but you did station them in a disputer area, what do you expect to happen? We threaten anyone with war if they attack our troops, but since they are in our nation, that is unlikely.

We don't expect them to be attacked because they aren't there to fight, or attack anyone else. They're there, as we have said, to protect civilians. Sheep has threatened them with attack for being there, which is why we are prepared to fight him.

quote: Very true, but please do not tar communism with that brush because of a few dictators. Else I will have to mention capitalists such as Pinochet, anarchy, and even (oh not, do not unlease the beast ) bush

I'm not trying to tar communism with that brush, but you have to admit that absicaly every communsit regime this century has turned into a dictatorship (the only exception that I know of being Nicaragua).

	05-04-2003 07:21									#63
	Support Apolyton

quote: I have to agree there. GT, Being Australian look at the Greens. They are the closest thing we have to Social Democrats. This is what I am trying to achieve. Now get where I am comming from. I AM NOT A DICTATOR. THE US IS JUST ANTI- SOCIALIST

There are plenty of other nations which are socialist and yet are classified as democracies. You haven't been. Deal with it.

	05-04-2003 07:28									#64
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Sheep occ: NOW THAT IS GODMODDING. **** IT ANARCHIC IF YOU JUST WANT TO TAKE MY NATION TO TRY AND RAPE MY ARSE DO SO! BUT DON:T COMPLAIN WHEN I GET PISSED OFF AND TELL YOU WHERE TO ****ING GO!

You *DO* realise that you already established yourself that Nuclear and Chemical weapons were used by those forces. There's a reason the UN says North and South Sheepsta are "notable for its barren, inhospitable landscape". Not my fault if you're ignoring context.

	05-04-2003 07:29									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No the fact is that Sheepsta is and still should be a jungle covered mass. This is how I envisoned it and as it is MY creation this is how it should BE!

	05-04-2003 07:35									#66
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Why should it still be a jungle covered mass when there were Nukes and Chemical weapons thrown around (A fact you established yourself)? Just because you originally invisioned it as being jungle covered doesn't mean it stays that way forever. Both the "UN" and all the RPing that's taken place agree on that point. Live with it like we all do and stop whinging. Geez, if you think I originally envisioned Alecrast as being a wasteland, you must seriously be deluded. But am I complaining? NO! I'm running with it and playing the hand I've been dealt. Why can't you?

	05-04-2003 07:38									#67
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Because when ****eheads like you that don;t give a **** for circumstances **** with your country it takes all the fun out of it.

Do you think I like fighting for MY nation back, NO of course not. However I am going to do it until either I win, or I discredit you in fron of everyone. You want to make it personal, its personal.

	05-04-2003 07:46									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by GeneralTacticus We don't expect them to be attacked because they aren't there to fight, or attack anyone else. They're there, as we have said, to protect civilians. Sheep has threatened them with attack for being there, which is why we are prepared to fight him.

If there is a shootout, and I stand in the middle, I expect to be shot. Colateral damage. There is a war there, if you wish to station troops there, they may well get hit, through no intention of anyone else. Even by Alecrast. If you are hit by them, woudl you go to war?

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Why should it still be a jungle covered mass when there were Nukes and Chemical weapons thrown around

Because you can have jungle and Nuke/Chem weapons. Look at Vietnam. It's still mostly jungle. It can be jungle and barren though. That is because of anti-green policies, rather then chem weapons.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep it takes all the fun out of it.

That could be true. I mean, it was his nation to start with, this is supposed to be fun. How did you take it anyway? Hacked into, or started them up again with old names?

	05-04-2003 07:49									#69
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: If there is a shootout, and I stand in the middle, I expect to be shot.

However, you dont' expect to be shot on purpose, nor do you expect to be shot if you're standing in front of a group of innocent bystanders.

quote: Colateral damage. There is a war there, if you wish to station troops there, they may well get hit, through no intention of anyone else. Even by Alecrast. If you are hit by them, woudl you go to war?

Only if we determined it to have been deliberate - as was our policy towards Sheepsta until they declared that they would consider any attacks on our troops to be collateral damage, rather than trying to prevent them.

	05-04-2003 07:49									#70
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Because when ****eheads like you that don;t give a **** for circumstances **** with your country it takes all the fun out of it.

The circumstances being

You were (apparently) sick
This didn't stop you from posting in taxing Diplomacy games many times, showing you were perfectly able to have continued with something as untaxing as Nationstates (Visit the site once in 21 days or get deleted, joy)
You didn't post in the Nationstates forum during that time
You didn't check your nation once during that time
You waited until about 2 weeks after your nation had died (I only did my thing 1 week after your nation died) to speak up.

I would think the circumstances do support me.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Do you think I like fighting for MY nation back, NO of course not. However I am going to do it until either I win, or I discredit you in fron of everyone. You want to make it personal, its personal.

IMO, it's not your nation. You abandoned it. Do you think I like having to fight with you over it? I was looking to create an RPG situation which could lead to some interesting political manovering in the courts over if them being my protectorates was legal or not. You've turned it into another damn war.

Now, I'm not going to back down until I win RPG wise, one way or another (ie. If you make things so that there's no other solution, well...if your nation is destroyed militarily, no matter how much you complain, it's over). As for discrediting me? How do you propose to do that? You're the only one making an arse out of yourself here.

	05-04-2003 07:49									#71
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I was sick and had limited time on the net. NS suffered because of it, but I was still contactable. If Anarchic had askjed I probably would of said yes, but the fact is he didn't ask and makes me think he stole it

	05-04-2003 07:53									#72
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Sheep I was sick and had limited time on the net. NS suffered because of it, but I was still contactable. If Anarchic had askjed I probably would of said yes, but the fact is he didn't ask and makes me think he stole it

Perfect timing.

Kindly inform me how, no matter how much limited time you had, that you could make all those posts in diplomacy and not visit the nationstates site just ONCE to maintain your nation.

quote: That could be true. I mean, it was his nation to start with, this is supposed to be fun. How did you take it anyway? Hacked into, or started them up again with old names?

His nation died and was removed from the Nationstates system when he didn't log in for 21 days. 7 days after this happened, I did my RPG thing with it. Shortly after he came back, I started North and South Sheepsta as actual nations on the Nationstates site so I could demonstrate their social, economic and political freedoms with RPG evidence.

	05-04-2003 07:55									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Because you can have jungle and Nuke/Chem weapons. Look at Vietnam. It's still mostly jungle. It can be jungle and barren though. That is because of anti-green policies, rather then chem weapons.

As I recall, that jungle took a while to regrow, correct? Plus Vietnam never suffered the Nukes. Things grow back, but not that quickly. All this has happened in the space of less than a year RPG wise by the way I'm measuring things. Now if it was 5-10 years, then I'd concede the point.

	05-04-2003 07:56									#74
	Support Apolyton

Archaic has a point, but as Sheep said, he was stil contactable. I think a PM would have solved a lot of this. However, can a compromise be reached.

Sheep: You have New Sheepsta, is it possible that you could RP and brand 'Old Sheepsta' as corrupt and that your people have moved on or something. And thus consider Old Sheepsta overtaken by other authorities, while all willign Sheepstan people,a nd their legitimate governement, have moved on to new pastures? Just an idea.

	05-04-2003 07:57									#75
	Tired of ads?

quote: As I recall, that jungle took a while to regrow, correct? Plus Vietnam never suffered the Nukes. Things grow back, but not that quickly. All this has happened in the space of less than a year RPG wise by the way I'm measuring things. Now if it was 5-10 years, then I'd concede the point.

Moreover, it took a huge reforestation campaign to repair things, and there are still many areas that have been rendered totally lifeless.

	05-04-2003 07:58									#76
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Archaic As I recall, that jungle took a while to regrow, correct? Plus Vietnam never suffered the Nukes. Things grow back, but not that quickly. All this has happened in the space of less than a year RPG wise by the way I'm measuring things. Now if it was 5-10 years, then I'd concede the point.

A year is a day in RL. Thus it is rather more than even 5-10 years. This was stated by violet IIRC, and is also worked out looking at population (1-10% per year)

	05-04-2003 07:59									#77
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: A year is a day in RL. Thus it is rather more than even 5-10 years. This was stated by violet IIRC, and is also worked out looking at population (1-10% per year)

Like I said, it's taken decades for the jungle to regrow, and that's been in a state of relative peace and stability.

	05-04-2003 08:01									#78
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Drogue A year is a day in RL. Thus it is rather more than even 5-10 years. This was stated by violet IIRC, and is also worked out looking at population (1-10% per year)

I don't think we can use that here however. There's no way this situation would've dragged on for decades. 1 day RL = 1 week to 1 month IG would work IMO.

	05-04-2003 08:02									#79
	Inflate your Upload Space

well... It depends how much was destroyed. If more then 30m% was I would be surprised, and after ~10 years, I would guess at least 10% has grown back, thus it is missing ~20%. Of course, this is just a guesstimate, but it is justifyable that there is much jungle left IMHO.

	05-04-2003 08:04									#80
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

No Sheepsta island is rightfully mine and I want it back

	05-04-2003 08:04									#81
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Archaic I don't think we can use that here however. There's no way this situation would've dragged on for decades.

Possibly. Possibly not. Remember, in this time, you've created and grown your country, it takes decades for a nation to develop, and decades for courts to decide on action, with appeals, etc.

quote: Originally posted by Archaic 1 day RL = 1 week to 1 month IG would work IMO.

I would think this much to short personally.

	05-04-2003 08:06									#82
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Archaic has a point, but as Sheep said, he was stil contactable. I think a PM would have solved a lot of this. However, can a compromise be reached.

Maybe so, but I figured that he had no interest in Nationstates anymore anyway, which under the circumstances was certainly a reasonable assumption.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Possibly. Possibly not. Remember, in this time, you've created and grown your country, it takes decades for a nation to develop, and decades for courts to decide on action, with appeals, etc.

Perhaps. Though I think with timespans that long there would have had to be military action before now.

quote: Originally posted by Drogue I would think this much to short personally.

Hmmmm......perhaps you're right. 1-3 months maybe?

	05-04-2003 08:34									#83
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Archaic Maybe so, but I figured that he had no interest in Nationstates anymore anyway, which under the circumstances was certainly a reasonable assumption.

Then admit your mistake and give it back to me!

	05-04-2003 09:25									#84
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Then admit your mistake and give it back to me!

No. I made no mistake in not contacting you. You had, for all intents and purposes, abandoned your nation. Now stop being such a petulant child already and admit THAT.

	05-04-2003 09:30									#85
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Archaic No. I made no mistake in not contacting you. You had, for all intents and purposes, abandoned your nation. Now stop being such a petulant child already and admit THAT.

I admit that I was sick, and with limited time I had to make piroities. Howevr I also confess to being online and contactable. You made a mistake in not asking, Taking without asking is called stealing in every culture I can name! As for being a petulant child, I wonder indeed if you have ever grown up yourself? I have hell I have a life off this computer, geez my girlfriend too was a piortiy over this, was that wrong? I don;t think so!. However I do not feel I need to suffer at the hands of a moronic stuck up good for nothing player that wishes only to spite me because I decided to make life intresting beforehand.

Hell lets see how do you like this.

ALECRAST GOVERNMENT HAS DISSAPERED< NEW SHEEPSTA SAYS IT IS GOING TO ANNEX 'PEACEFULLY' AND THEN OCCUPY IT THEN MAKE IT A PUPPET STATE< THEN OCCUPY IT AGAIN UNTIL EVERYONE FORGETS WHY I AM HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND JUST AGREES WITH ME!

HELL WHAT A GOOD IDEA!

	05-04-2003 09:41									#86
	Suffering from ads?

Don't you just love it how Sheep assumes I'm out to get him, and that just because he's taken it all personally, that I must be too?

Sheep, you aren't answering my question. Stop dodging it already. Kindly inform us all how, no matter how much limited time you had, that you could make all those posts in diplomacy and not visit the nationstates site just ONCE to maintain your nation.

As for calling you a petulant child, stand back for one second and take a look at how you're acting. Getting pissy at me because you screwed up isn't going to change anything.

IMO, you had ABANDONED your nation. That means you surrendered your rights to it. The nation ceased to exist for practical purposes, so I used it to do my roleplay. ANY nation in the region could've done that. I only picked Sheepsta because it was the closest empty nation in the region. If GT had gone for a month in the way you had, I would've done it with Centralis. Same with Karakas, or any of the other close nations. YOU were the one who abandoned your nation, so stop trying to pin the blame on everyone else.

Oh, and BTW....

quote: ALECRAST GOVERNMENT HAS DISSAPERED< NEW SHEEPSTA SAYS IT IS GOING TO ANNEX 'PEACEFULLY' AND THEN OCCUPY IT THEN MAKE IT A PUPPET STATE< THEN OCCUPY IT AGAIN UNTIL EVERYONE FORGETS WHY I AM HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND JUST AGREES WITH ME!

1) If I had been away from my nation for so long without an explanation, while posting actively in other forums, I would ADMIT that I had surrendered my rights to the nation during that time. If something happened RPG wise with it during that time, while I might not like the results, I would accept them, and start anew.

2) Have you paid no notice at all to what was happening earlier? The mistake in the terminology was already clarified. North and South Sheepsta are protectorates with their own semi-independant governments, which have been partially integrated with the governments of the nations protecting them. They were NEVER occupied, and NEVER annexed.

3) The only person who seems to constantly forget everything that's happened and has been established is you. You're quite free to read the topics. It's not my problem if you refuse to keep yourself up to date, and ignore everything that you don't like.

	05-04-2003 09:44									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Because diplomacy is where I come from and I owe allegiance to my roots, therefore it had a higher piority. I only had30 minutes a day while I was in hopstial to post, sometimes less, so a trip to the slow server that nation states was at the time was not feasible.

Happy now?

	05-04-2003 09:48									#88
	Tired of ads?

No. Because the nationstates server was hardly slow during that period (It got quite quick BEFORE you left as I recall), and there is no reason you couldn't have either
a) Opened up a second browser window
b) Posted at least once in the NS forum
c) Got someone else to mind your nation.

In other words....

Not. Our. Fault. That. You. Were. Lazy.

	05-04-2003 09:55									#89
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Whatever I am not going to argue with you over this, because it seems as though I am talkig to a wall that will never care whaty the OWNER thinks.

Just think about this, If the owner of a car leaves on the side of the road for a month, and it isn't there when he comes back, the person who took it stole the car. Why is this any diffrent? However if the person asked the car's owner if he could use it, and the owner said yes, there would be no problem.

See whatever else you say this cold of been solver by a simple PM on your behalf. So before you go calling me LAZY sonsider this, why didn;t you ask in the first place?

Now lets wait until the courts decide what the outcome should be

	05-04-2003 10:09									#90
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That's a very different scenario. You don't cease to be the owner of a car like that. However, you DID cease to be the owner of Sheepsta when you let your account be deleted because you were negligent. It is a VERY different thing. Think of it more like having your child taken away by Social Services because you were a bad parent. Afterall, to borrow from your attempt at an analogy, you left your child out to die in the wilderness.

Let's wait until the courts decide indeed.