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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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Well, while you refuse to call them off, they're just getting themselves killed. Seriously, this isn't even close to being a fair fight. It might be if we had only a single unit here instead of, well, let's see......the entire North Sheepsta Brownshirts batallion, which is about 200,000 men, along with Alecrast Praetorian Guard, which is only 50,000, and whatever forces South Sheepsta and Bulbagarden are deploying......
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ceroomaster
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Casnewydd, Cymru
Aug 2002
time: 05:27
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Tightening of Security in Ceroo
The Democratic States of Ceroo, would like to announce that due to the tensions on the Sheepsta islands, security at all ports and airports will be stepped up in a bid to protect against any possible terrorism (large numbers of Alecrast aircraft and ships which could be potenital targets pass through Ceroo every day) and handle any new immigration problems caused by a possible influx of refugees.
In particular, our eastern-most colony, the island of Elisya (nearly 200 miles south of Alecrast) has had imposed a no-fly zone for all non-Cerooan craft over it and the port is now tightly regulated. The Endeavour and the First Fleet have been despatched from Newport on the mainland, and will be safeguarding Cerooan interests at Elisya. The main reason for Elisya receiving this extra attention is that the potential conflict could potentially produce a huge number of refugees, regardless of which side wins, and it is the closest Cerooan island to Sheepsta (although still a great distance accross Alecrast waters). Already, a small number of South Sheepstan refugees (36) have arrived. ***We would like to point out at this point, that there is no news as to why these people have fled already, and request that speculation be kept to a minimum.*** A camp is in the process of being set up, and Ceroo requests that all friendly nations prepare themselves to assist in the aid reuirements that such a humanitarian crisis would require.
Again, Ceroo would like to urge all parties to do everything possible to avert war, and hope a sensible and diplomatic solution can be found when the Court reopens.
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Giovanni Wine
Well... according to the latest UN Military Ranking New Sheepsta was way over North and South Sheepsta (but below Alecrast) so if it was New Sheepsta alone against this Brownshirst batallion than it wouldn't be so strange if New Sheepsta was to win |
You can chalk that up to their compulsory military service. But really now...when they have only infantry, and very poorly equiped troops, what do they expect to do against elite infantry in state of the art tanks who can call down air support at will?
[/OOC]
In other news, the following Alecrast forces have been deployed to North Sheepsta to aid in the defense against the "New Sheepstan" forces.
Infantry Regiments
Rangers (All divisions), Yokuza (Alecrast mainland and Sheepstan divisions), Pretorian Guard (All divisions), Knights of Valis (All divisions), Knights of Marmo (All divisions), Brownshirts (North Sheepsta; All divisions)
Naval Battlegroups
Sonii Battlegroup. Port Urbanised Battlegroup (North Sheepsta)
Air Force Wings
Exact forces unknown, however representatives from every major wing have been sighted. Planes seem to be largly a mixture of FW-3 "Articuno" Bombers and SA-5 "Lugia" Interceptors, though SA-4 "Ho-oh" Interceptors and FW-2 "Moltres" Bombers have also been sighted. Given the common tech of Alecrast, Bulbagarden, and the Protectorates with Air Forces, it is impossible to determine which militaries these belong to specifically.
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
The fact that Alecrast wishes to silence its critic in its ulawful occupation of Sheepstan homes through its overwhelming military force is evidence of the motives of this regime. |
EXCUSE ME? You're the one who attacked us fool. Have our troops advanced into the territories you claimed as yours? NO. We've simply slaughtered all the troops you've thrown at us.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
We do not seek to destroy Alecrast or Bulbagarden, both are nations that deserve their independence. However the same cannot be said for their views on Sheepsta. Deep within the Sheepstan jungles (yes Anarchic they are still there, I don;t care what you say, when I told you they cover 90% of the Sheepstan island) and have started guerilla campagins to liberate the Sheepstan peoples.
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Besides the fact that your paragraph makes no sense, it doesn't matter if you don't like it. It's established fact. Let me say it again. Rainforests don't grow back that quickly when they've been leveled by NBC.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
In this case the Sheepstan forces have more support more knowledge and more determination. We shall triumph against the evil forces of occupation!
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You love your retoric about "occupation" when it's not an occupation, don't you?
Not to mention the fact that you seem to love ignoring the fact that the battleines aren't in the forests. You've had to come out onto plains to attack us, and you then run a gauntlet of arti' and air bombing.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
occ: Think of me like North Vietnam and you the United States Anarchic. We have more determination, you have captalist and imperail ambitons. However the power of the people are not to be underestimated and that is why The United States lost. |
Your analogy doesn't hold any relevance to this. Give it up with your fallacious appeals to emotion already. I don't care if you think you're more determined, or that our liberal democratic ideology is bad, or even if you think we have imperial ambitions when we've clearly demonstrated we don't. Your forces are being slaughtered, our losses are light, and the result of this conflict is now a foregone conclusion. All because you attacked us in your foolish arrogance.
The North Sheepstan military today reports only light fighting along the New Sheepstan front, with most USSNS troops hunkering down in hastily dug trenches along the edge of defoliated and mutated rainforests, making their pants as brown as the shirts of the North Sheepstan batallions after the deployment of P Power bombs by the Alecrast air force. A number of New Sheepstan forces have surrendered, and were treated for dehydration by the Brownshirts, and will reportedly make a full recovery. These POW's were said to be "awed" and "amazed" by what they'd seen of North Sheepstan life while being treated in a public hospital, and apparently said that it was nothing like they had been told it would be by their leaders. Indeed, they apparently expected to be slaughtered in their trenches while crapping themselves, but it was the simple fact that the Brownshirts only fired upon those who took an offensive posture that lead them to trying their luck with surrender.
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
occ: I don;t supprt the war on Iraq I would appreciate it if you did not make any equations between the rping here and the plight of the Iraqi civilan. |
O.O.C. I support the war on Iraq, and if you want to debate about it with me, bring it on. I'll reference it if I want to, because quite frankly, what you're doing is exactly what Iraq has done. (Claims of the enemy wanting natural resources, coming as invaders, making all these unsubstantiated propaganda claims, etc, etc, etc) Of course, I consider my nations somewhat better than the US (Afterall, am I invading? No. I waited for you to attack.), but I certainly see parallels between toppling your regime and toppling Saddam's, not the least being that you're a brutal military dictatorship (Who had WMD but claims to have disposed of them. Wow, more parallels. This is getting creepy.)
And also....."equation"? Please tell me, is English your second language, or are some public high schools here really that bad?
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Okay then name me explain to me Four things. You can't
1/ Why did the weapon's inspectors only get 3 months from 1441 til the invasion
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Check your history fool. How many years were the Weapons Inspectors in after the end of the first Gulf War before being expelled from Iraq by Saddam? 8 years
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
2/ Why hasn't anyone found credible evidence of the WOMD or the fact why hasn't our governments came out with the evidence if THEY do have it.
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What, you think the evidence is right out in the open? This is a desert country. It is not hard to hide something in an endless desert.
Though, you really should read this.
http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewto...a3a89f36f4df350
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercuryn...raq/5573683.htm
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
3/ Why back in September was American TV networks and the government talking about a possible invasion of Iraq, and was dismayed at the inactivity of the United Nations.
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Could it be because the United Nations were inactive and not solving the problem?
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
4/Why has France, Germany, Russia or China all who have obviously seen this great piece of evidence George Bush is hiding from the public continually not back the resolutions the Americans would of needed to mount a legitmate invasion of Iraq.
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You do know of all the economic contracts that France, Germany, Russia and China had with Iraq, right? You know, the ones they haven't been paid for yet.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Truth is this war is not about WOMD or Saddam it is about securing American assets in the Persian Gulf region, securing oil for the Western markets that otherwise we run but Saddam, and to ensure that the American Empire continues to grow.
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The USA gets the majority of oil from Canda, with the Saudi's, itself, and Australia the next highest producers for its oil requirements. They don't need Saddam's oil at all.
Though one must point out....most of that oil was owned by by Americians before Saddam nationalized the industry (ie. Took it from them).
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Who are we to press our notions of liberty, justice or democracy on another people. You can;t make people be free they need to choose it. Yes I don't support Saddam who could but I feel a much better way would be to release the crippling embargoes placed upon the Iraqi people and with their economic power growing it is a well known fact that they would demand the policital freedoms to go with it. |
A well known fact? Bullshit. You *do* know that last time they demanded political freedoms that they were put down by Saddam's military, don't you?
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
ahhh, someone who has been mystified by the arch-imperialists propoganda. Sorry dude but you use exactly the same arguments as they do. |
Don't you just love it how you bring out one logical fallacy after another? First a Personal Attack against other people, then a Guilt by Association fallacy. I don't see you invalidating myn arguements here.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
In 8 years don;t you think the inspectors would of found something. |
They probably would've. If they were allowed to do their jobs properly. Which they weren't. Remember all the times they were refused entry to sites, including all those massive presidential palace compounds (The smallest of which was larger than Buckingham Palace as I recall)?
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
The US has heaps of sattelites buzzing over Irawq they could pick up massed attempts of hiding weapons, |
You overestimate the ability of sattelites to pick small objects from orbit when they don't know where to look. Chemical Weapons are typically stored in the same manner as Oil, and biological agents could literally be carried in a pocket.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
oh and you still haven;t expained that if the US has this killer evidence why they fail to show it to the general public. |
Do I have to when troops, plus an embedded reporter, are starting to test positive for having been exposed to the weapons?
Besides, there *is* the matter of national security. Somehow I don't think operatives are going to like their covers being blown and being killed because their work was paraded around publically.
Quite frankly though....are you saying that Saddam shouldn't be toppled? Even if you could prove that people had ulterior motives, Saddam being toppled is still something that is desirable.
Ever hear about the unintended consequences arguement? For example, did the US invade France in 1944 to liberate France? Let's say they did not, and that they had ulterior motives (as some people claim). The end result however was a liberated France. Apply this to Iraq. Let's say we are going in just for the oil (despite the fact it would take a large amount of money to make it profitable, that Iraq doesn't supply that much oil, that the US already has all it needs from Canada, etc.) The end result is still a liberated Iraq, where Saddam no longer holds power. In fact, this reminds me of of Adam Smith pointing out the wholy unintended postive effects of a free market run on self-intrest, which shouldn't be too suprising seeing that politics and economics were originally considered one field of study.
A question Sheep. What kind of student are you anyway? I'm a 2nd Year student of International Business, with a Japanese Language specialization. My specialty areas are Government and Ethics. Now, what founding in these topics do you have that makes you think you have the right to speak with such authority when you're not even providing evidence, simply outlandish claims that are easily rebutted? The fact that the ANSWER group (A front for the World Workers Party, surprise surprise.) and a bunch of other people at those rallies in King George Square agree with you?
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Archaic
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Washed up SMAC/X University Specialist
Nov 2001
time: 15:27
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Thanks for that GT. A very good point.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Listen mate I have studied this subject in great detail. |
Translation - "I read a few pamphlets the communist A.N.S.W.E.R group gave me. Oh no, they can't have an ultertior motive! They're communists!"
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
While I do respect that others including yourself have diffrent opinions, I do have my own. |
And so far they seem to be rather informed opinions, considering that you didn't know a basic fact like WMD having been found during those 8 years.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
The thing you have to remember is that in International Relations you need to be willing to read between the lines to discover the truth. Believeing eveything you see and read you are doomed to fall into the trap of propoganda. |
Which is why I've recently been watching all of FOX, CNN, NBC, Sky, BBC, ITN, Al-Jazeera, and the various world news programs on the SBS, not to mention the free to air networks, to get my news from as many perspectives as possible. (I also read iraqwar.ru, as well as the sites of many newspapers and other news networks from around the words) It seems however that you believe that anyone who's actually informed would support you. Newsflash. Most of the people at those rallies are easily swayed university students, to whom the socialist promises usually sound good simply because they don't have much money, and envy those who do. (One should note here that I am a poor university student, on HECS, who couldn't afford it in my present state without HECS, who believes most of the Nelson report is right. How's that for a display of objectivity?)
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
It happened in Nazi Germany, it is now happening in the United States, Britian and Australia. These governemts and their media lackeys will show you what they want you to see. |
Yes, that's right. There's a massive global conspiricy to prevent people from learning (DUH DUH DUH!) "the truth!". Which is why I can get all those news coverages from all the different perspectives that I listed earlier.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
If it wasn;t the case wouldn;t you think that there would be more coverage on the civilan casualties, or collateral damge as you call them. Would you like to be referred to as collateral damage. |
I'd refer to them as unfortunate casualties of war. Kindly don't place words in my mouth. And no, I don't think there'd be more coverage of them. What's the point? You seem to forget that people die in wars.
You also seem to be of the opinion that "oh, we killed some civilians by accident. That must mean we should stop this war and not topple the dictator who oppresses them".
You do realise BTW that the media has given quite a bit of coverage to how they're trying to minimise civilian deaths? Inert bombs (ie. Slabs of concrete shaped like bombs, which can be laser guided towards targets) do a mass of damage against targets, but don't cause all that much other damage beside that.
And as to if I'd like to be referred to as collateral damage.....that's a Red Herring and an Appeal to Emotion wrapped up in one neat package. Utterly irrelevant.
quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Remember the price the Iraqi people havce to pay to have freedom imposed onto them. |
Considering that the Republican Guard had to put down an uprising of citizens in Bagdad today, killing 35 civilians and injuring many others, I'd hardly say it's imposing it on them. Civilian deaths are regretable, but it's a far smaller price to pay than the price you'd have them pay to achieve a goal through peaceful (and unrealistic) means.
Last edited by Archaic on 07-04-2003 at 17:20
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Jack_www
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quote:
Originally posted by Sheep
Listen mate I have studied this subject in great detail. While I do respect that others including yourself have diffrent opinions, I do have my own. The thing you have to remember is that in International Relations you need to be willing to read between the lines to discover the truth. Believeing eveything you see and read you are doomed to fall into the trap of propoganda. It happened in Nazi Germany, it is now happening in the United States, Britian and Australia. These governemts and their media lackeys will show you what they want you to see.
If it wasn;t the case wouldn;t you think that there would be more coverage on the civilan casualties, or collateral damge as you call them. Would you like to be referred to as collateral damage.
Remember the price the Iraqi people havce to pay to have freedom imposed onto them. |
Sheep you of all people should know better. Why do people keep comparing Nazi Germany with USA? There are no paralles. I know what happened in Germany that led to the rise of Hittler and none of that is happening hear, and the last time I checked President Bush is not racist.
Also if the USA wanted the oil in the Middle East so much we would have just taken over the country in 1991. In fact we would have taken over all of the middle east by now, considering most of the those nations millitary forces are no match for the US.
Everyday US troops advance more and more into Iraq and into the capital they find evidence that Saddam was training his troops for chemical warfare and giving them Chem suits and antiduotes for chemical weapons. Also they may have found a chemical weapons site in Iraq and the first test on sence show that it is and they are going to conduct more test just to make sure before making it offical. The fact is when you have complete and total access to every place in Iraq, like the USA does it will make finding these weapons so much easier.
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Jack_www
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Also Sheep if you must know the estimated civilians killed by the war on both sides if around 909 to 1087 at the time I posted this, if you want to check this the site is http://www.iraqbodycount.net. They are a group of researches who looking at news reports to see if they can get a number on how many civilians have died, and I think most of them are anti war, but still a good place to look if you want to see how many civilians died.
And you know how I found out about this site sheep? By listening to a local radio station, that according to you are not reporting civilian deaths.
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05-04-2003 11:04
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