10-04-2003 01:28									#61
	Got spare money?

They pop rushed the last 20 shields of a Barracks sometime between 950BC and 875BC, and then pop rushed that Spear we see S of Dissidentville. It's the only way they could have gotten a vet Spear to that position.

They took Dissidentville in 1375BC... that gives 20 turns to 875BC, which works to give them the shields they need. I think they also pop rushed another vet Spear in 850BC (they should have grown that turn, 21 turns after taking the city back, but stayed at size 2). That one is almost certainly on the Iron colony. They could have moved it there in such a way that we wouldn't have seen it with Grog (99999 for instance).

	10-04-2003 02:38									#62
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How much cash would we need to be able to continue researching at max speed? GoW are considering giving us some of the 12 gpt for Feudalism this turn, in the form of cash, if we can meet our current deadline.

GoW invited me to chat. You are free to join #GoW.

	10-04-2003 02:41									#63
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Agree. the iron colony itself will be better protected with one spear on, one near it.

How much units could Vox reasonably have?

They have build 6 settlers, and a couple (3?) workers. That doesn't seem to leave much room for pop rushing. Further, that iron colony is there from 1200 BC, since then they were unable to build warriors anymore. So, how many immortals could they have, some 20-some? They should have been able to keep 4 cities on pure immortal building for over 25 turns, combine that with some left over warriors and it is a considerable force we might face.

Better be careful, maybe we need to go for pikes quite fast, simply to protect ourselves better.

DeepO

	10-04-2003 02:43									#64
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I'll try to get into chat, but can't stay long. Be careful not to reveal too much, most likely they are playing a game on us.

DeepO

	10-04-2003 02:59									#65
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When they passed us in military strength I'd say they had 4 Immortals. Upgrades...units they could have built since then... 10-12 Immortals right now probably, with another couple of Warriors headed to Barracks.

They have about 6 turns. 4 of which they need just to get close enough to hit us. Once we have Feudalism and Hurricane free for military production they are dead. Having Feudalism before then doesn't help us any, and actually hurts us because we won't have any cash to upgrade units with anyways. If GoW is willing to pay us up front cash is the only way we should continue research. Let them offer it first (in game) so we don't miss out on being able to upgrade 3 more Swords next turn if they bail on the deal.

	10-04-2003 03:06									#66
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Is the money from GoW enough to let us speed up research? none of the other teams can pay us immediately. Having Feud early means it becomes available to Vox that much earlier, if they would be able to take a city, we are probably going to take over 9 turns to conquer them.

Really, I wish we had 10 turns NDAs instead of 7 turns. Couldn't we ask this from GoW as part of releasing it early?

DeepO

	10-04-2003 03:10									#67
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We can take Vox's Iron relatively quickly. They don't have any Iron under their cities right?

Yet another deception... let's leave them with a city, surrounded by Pikes and cats... bombarding them each turn... for the rest of the game (upgrading the units as necessary of course).

	10-04-2003 03:18									#68
	Put an end to popups!

Actually, would some catapults help? we could rush those realitely easy in a number of cities, instead of building barracks there.

DeepO

	10-04-2003 03:21									#69
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Once we have Pikes and have secured a way through the Jungle, catapults will help take their cities. We will take a lot fewer losses if our Pike/Med Inf stacks have catapults along for the ride. For now we need to focus on WC's and Spears though.

	10-04-2003 03:24									#70
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I've updated the economic orders BTW.

	10-04-2003 04:12									#71
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Could we leave enough WCs on the Eastern side of the river this turn? If nothing happens North of Monsoon, we might go immortal hunting with them, if that reg immortal would stroll a bit too closely.

Then again, they might want that, distracting perhaps 2 WCs away from our cities. We're not the only ones who can set traps.

DeepO

	10-04-2003 04:25									#72
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'd rather wait. Each turn we can delay our GA without losing ground is better for us in the long run.

	10-04-2003 04:42									#73
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Did our upgrades change anything that the military advisor says?

	10-04-2003 04:48									#74
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I'm afraid not.
Keep in mind though, that galleys also increase your military strength. Vox has what, 2 or 3 galleys? Things aren't as ugly as they seem.

	10-04-2003 04:48									#75
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quote: Could we leave enough WCs on the Eastern side of the river this turn? If nothing happens North of Monsoon, we might go immortal hunting with them, if that reg immortal would stroll a bit too closely.

We can leave as many WCs on the Eastern side as we want this turn. There is a very real possibility that in 2 turns Vox can land troops next to Monsoon though. Having all 3 WC's and a couple of Swords in Arashi should cover what they could land.

	10-04-2003 06:02									#76
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Aeson, your math was off. Upgrades are 40 each, so four were 160 gold, leaving us with 31.

I'm not nearly as optimistic about the military situation as you are. If Vox's plans to land on Bob are a hoax, they could hit us with a lot very quickly - very possibly enough to take Arashi before we could build up our forces enough to deal with the situation. Keep in mind that as long as Vox has a galley and immortals off our coast, we have to have adequate defenses arround Hurricane to be absolutely sure we don't lose it. I'd rather get our GA sooner than later, so we can make the war shorter and less costly (with less chance that we might actually lose if Vox hits us with everything they have and the RNG results turn against us).

	10-04-2003 06:08									#77
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'd like to have our WCs on the east side this turn so if Vox's regular immortal moves 1, 2, 4, or 7, we can hit him. If we can reduce Vox's number of immortals near Hurricane by one, that's less forces we need in the Hurricane area and more we can focus elsewhere. And as I said in the post immediately above, I'd like to go ahead and trigger our GA if we can.

Nathan

	10-04-2003 06:57									#78
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Change to 1 Barracks? That's it?

Tempest with an aquaduct will be very useful for an invader. They'll thank us later, I'm sure. Are we still planning on paying to rush it?

Do we have a plan? How much of what how soon?

We are facing 10 plus Immortals. They will have rough terrain on their side. How are we going to counter them? How much do we need? Where are we going to get it from in 4 to 6 turns?

	10-04-2003 07:06									#79
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BTW, any city which is in danger should not be allowed to grow in pop. All we would be doing is providing fodder for the despots to pop rush reinforcements close to the front. Switch to maximum production, now!

	10-04-2003 07:11									#80
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I'm switching Tempest to a barracks and configuring things so it finishes next turn. That makes cash-rushing an aqueduct more expensive when we're ready, but I want the extra troops until we're sure we have the war in hand (and it will be a few turns before we have the gold in any case). With proper tile allocation, it can finish a WC or spearman every two turns until our GA comes.

Nathan

	10-04-2003 07:16									#81
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Cool. That's a start.

What is the plan for EotS? Let it grow and then join the settler? Is that enough? Should we plan on joining a worker to get it to 15 shields once the project is done?

	10-04-2003 07:16									#82
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how many more turns for they pyramids?

how many units will we have in four turns?

Was there a decision reached about feudalism? ETA?

Should we pillage a square of the northern road? I imagine thats where the immortals are heading. Pillaging one will keep them out a turn.

i hope there isn't a galley in dissidentville. Monsoon is a goner.

	10-04-2003 07:21									#83
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What about Arashi? How quick can we get that Barracks done?

	10-04-2003 07:26									#84
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Idea

I don't want this missed. Why don't we take a shot at the other Immortal with Ouch. Maybe get lucky and hit a pip or two. That might slow them down some. We will lose, they will have a very small chance of gaining promotion. The chance that we slow them down is greater, yes?

	10-04-2003 07:29									#85
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I reconfigured Arashi to stop its growth but finish a barracks in three turns at our current rate. I'm hoping we can make a stand there.

Having cities at size 2 when Vox hits isn't too bad (since a pop is lost when the city is captured). Anything higher than that, though, and we give Vox a chance to pop rush. (Note, by the way, that Vox is going to have some serious unhappiness problems in captured cities, so they probably won't be able to grow any population on their own.)

Nathan

	10-04-2003 07:37									#86
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Excellent. That's 3 good barracks cities and Arashi not too far behind. EotS and Hurricane coming on soon may do it.

If they have 12 or 14 Immortals, we will have our work cut out for us. We may be able to produce enough, fast enough. Then we will out produce them in spades.

The trick is the next 10 turns. The war will be decided by the end of 10 turns. Spare nothing! There is no alternative to success.

We should maximise EotS on production next turn.

	10-04-2003 07:38									#87
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Aeson, your math was off. Upgrades are 40 each, so four were 160 gold, leaving us with 31.

Sorry, was thinking we only upgraded the vets when I typed that. Still the same deal, just we upgraded one more right now.

	10-04-2003 07:40									#88
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Sufa could finish a Galley in 4 turns.

	10-04-2003 07:40									#89
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Pyramids in four turns.

Regarding EotS, we can get our barracks time to four turns (non-GA) if we're willing to add our settler next turn (while it's at size 6) and bring growth almost to a halt. If we don't trigger our GA next turn, that's probably the way to go.

	10-04-2003 07:43									#90
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I think that's the way to go regardless. I think we would much rather build 1 Barracks and 3 Swords too many than the same number too few.

At any rate, I have a lot of work to do. I will have to leave it to you others.

Good luck.