09-04-2003 08:20									#61
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Just to keep things correct.... Slow called the thread a dork thread. But no personal attack on the thread starter just yet. Thread starter...Agathon... then remarked to the dork comment by calling Slow a lame brain. Personal attack.

This is when Slow made his comments to Agathon in a flame broiled serving.

Seems he didn't start the personal flame fest, simply answered back.

I just like things to be accurate.

	09-04-2003 08:22									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker dork thread

Is anyone else going to pick up the new TMNT series from Dreamwave when it comes out in June?

	09-04-2003 08:22									#63
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I personally have not been in battle and have not experienced the stress associated with it. Therefore, I will not judge these soldiers.

	09-04-2003 08:23									#64
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edited for adult content

	09-04-2003 08:36									#65
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I have also noticed that the same people who don't give a damn about the journalists seem to be so concerned about their soldiers, as if their life were for some reason more precious. Both are people, both have the same rights, both are there to do their job, both are exposed to life-threatening situations, so a little bit of FRIGGIN compassion should be due.

	09-04-2003 08:40									#66
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Let's see, we had 6 people killed helping two auto out. We had 8 people killed while the Iraqis were surrendering. We had several cars and buses charge our people loaded with lots of bomb material. We had some Tanks and Bradley's destroyed by RPG and antitank missiles.
So now someone on the 5th floor points something your way and you are some 2 km away, and some of you want us to just sit there and see if it is a TOW or what ever?
You know that these guys can just put their guns down, find the back door and just go home and we would not find most them and the war would be over.
When I was in Korea, I was told when I went on Pier Watch that my gun would be loaded and that I could shoot anything I thought that might be suspicious and after the shooting they would find out if it was OK that I had shoot someone. All other ports, my gun was unloaded and I had to get permission to load first. We do have rules. This a war zone, you shoot first and then worried if it was OK. The life you save may be your own.

Last edited by Joseph on 09-04-2003 at 09:02

	09-04-2003 08:43									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Lincoln Oh good, another thread where blow dried Napoleans decide what is best in a combat situation. The last I heard, this is a war. Sitting in an armchair really is not the best place to fight it.

Yes, we should never question our government representatives. We all know this is AMERICA, the shining beacon of enlightenment and freedom for the entire world, and we should all just cheer and show our appreciation for the information given us in official press releases, as we do the entire world a favor and give Iraqi Freedom.

	09-04-2003 08:45									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph When I was in Korea, I was told when I went on Pier Watch that my gun would be loaded and that I could shoot anything I thought that might be subspecies and after the shooting they would find out if it was OK that I had shoot someone.

Please tell me you did not just use this word to refer to people...

	09-04-2003 08:48									#69
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yes, we should never question our government representatives. We all know this is AMERICA, the shining beacon of enlightenment and freedom for the entire world, and we should all just cheer and show our appreciation for the information given us in official press releases, as we do the entire world a favor and give Iraqi Freedom.

Don't trust the government yet do trust and approve everything your armed forces tells you or does... Isn't it ironic?

	09-04-2003 08:49									#70
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Ya Dink is easier. One syllabble



Oh and spot on Joseph! Shoot first, ask later.

	09-04-2003 08:51									#71
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BTW: Gen. Brooks said the shots came from the lobby at the hotel then why did the tanks shoot at the 5th floor? He later said his answer had been premature...

Again, I'm not one to know what really happened but it just sounds too wierd.

	09-04-2003 08:51									#72
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Those journalists had it coming anyway. There networks were pure propaganda machines. And in case you didnt see the clip earlier with the Abrams on the bridge getting fired at by an Iraqi AT gun...wait they dont show that stuff over there. Oh and there are 4 different ATGM in Iraqi possession that shoot further than 2km. One (The Sagger type P) can go 8km wire guided. So they have some mean stuff in there arsenal. Wether they have the intellegence to operate this stuff is another question entirely.

	09-04-2003 08:52									#73
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quote: Originally posted by red_mustard Ya Dink is easier. One syllabble

"ban" is also one syllable. Watch yourself.

Master Zen - I think he post-bobbled the word and meant "suspicious" - it fits the context.

	09-04-2003 08:53									#74
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In the footage i saw, the camera flashes coming from the building looked eerily like muzzle flashes... perhaps the tank crew made this mistake, and in the fog of war opened fire, deciding to shoot first and ask questions later...
If this be the case, let all photographers be warned to take pictures at your own risk! I know if i were in a tanl in the middle of a hostile city, i would shoot at anything that made me feel fearful or threatened...

No matter the reason, these deaths, like those of any of the non-combatants is very sad ... i can only hope this war ends quickly

	09-04-2003 08:54									#75
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Hence the wink Michael?

	09-04-2003 08:54									#76
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Master Zen - I think he post-bobbled the word and meant "suspicious" - it fits the context.

happens to all of us

	09-04-2003 08:54									#77
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quote: Originally posted by red_mustard And in case you didnt see the clip earlier with the Abrams on the bridge getting fired at by an Iraqi AT gun...wait they dont show that stuff over there. Oh and there are 4 different ATGM in Iraqi possession that shoot further than 2km. One (The Sagger type P) can go 8km wire guided. So they have some mean stuff in there arsenal. Wether they have the intellegence to operate this stuff is another question entirely.

And most anti-tank guns are mounted on the shoulder.

Like ohhhh, sayy..... A CAMERA

	09-04-2003 08:54									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Don't trust the government yet do trust and approve everything your armed forces tells you or does... Isn't it ironic?

Uh, the armed forces is part of the government. "Trust" - not necessarily, been there, done some of that. "approve" - monumentally insignificant, they don't really clear their orders with me.

	09-04-2003 08:57									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman In the footage i saw, the camera flashes coming from the building looked eerily like muzzle flashes... perhaps the tank crew made this mistake, and in the fog of war opened fire, deciding to shoot first and ask questions later... If this be the case, let all photographers be warned to take pictures at your own risk! I know if i were in a tanl in the middle of a hostile city, i would shoot at anything that made me feel fearful or threatened... No matter the reason, these deaths, like those of any of the non-combatants is very sad ... i can only hope this war ends quickly

Yes, in the heat of combat you can't expect to make rational decisions in an instant. Mistakes will be made, I understand that and definitely journalists know that they are in the thick of battle and must be prepared for everything.

What shocks me is the total indifference of some people at these deaths, almost as if they deserved it. Shame on them.

	09-04-2003 08:57									#80
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quote: Originally posted by red_mustard Those journalists had it coming anyway. There networks were pure propaganda machines.

Actually, one of the journalists killed or wounded was from a Spanish network (they're allies, BTW), another was from Reuters. (They're US, BTW)

Another "had it coming" remark like that, and you will get one of my special vacation villas in the Baja desert for a week.

	09-04-2003 08:58									#81
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looks like you banned me. And then changed your mind. Discard that PM then?


Oh and fine I agree. Ill try to add a few dozen more winks to make my point.

	09-04-2003 08:59									#82
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What is galling is that the Army immidtately says "we were taking fire and fired back" instead of saying at the start "we are investigating the matter". Basically in the Army briefings, all hints of mistake and happenstance must be eradicated..al must be 100% as planned, A-OK, soemone elses fault, we are perfect, so forth and so on. That is why so many people think the army briefings are nothing more than propaganda..cause they act just the same "nothing wrong, nothing FUBAR"

I saw footage too, and there did not seem to be any fire outgoing at all: if the guys in the tank made a mistake, you know, admit it and move on, instead of saying..hey, they should have known blah blah blah.

	09-04-2003 08:59									#83
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I heard they got good offroad racing down there amigo.

	09-04-2003 08:59									#84
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So far the US is 2/2 for bombing Al Jazeera offices in wartime.

Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence...

We'll see when the next war rolls 'round.

	09-04-2003 08:59									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker And most anti-tank guns are mounted on the shoulder. Like ohhhh, sayy..... A CAMERA

Actually, no AT "guns" are shoulder mount - and most man-portable shoulder fired ATGM's are short range.

The tank crew did what they're trained to do based on the info thay had. It's a damned shame about the results, but the crews can't be blamed.

	09-04-2003 09:00									#86
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Unrelated: Fox has video of US soldiers blissfully patrolling downtown baghdad encountering no resistance. Looks like its near the end

	09-04-2003 09:00									#87
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I thought Reuters was British for some reason?

	09-04-2003 09:01									#88
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The tank crew did what they're trained to do based on the info thay had. It's a damned shame about the results, but the crews can't be blamed.

	09-04-2003 09:01									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Please tell me you did not just use this word to refer to people...

No, the word was suppose to be suspicious. I will change it.

	09-04-2003 09:01									#90
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FYI the Sagger and spandral are TRIPOD mounted as most better ATGM are. It can be mounted on vehicles or used stand-alone.