11-05-2003 21:36									#181
	Got spare money?

this is a new bug. the game every once in a while cancels our lux trades. until this time, they cancelled after the turn but the turn did not bomb. this time the game bombed and did not allow a normal save. if Eli declares war, the only option I can think of, the lux trades will already be off when the turn comes to me. this will screw us up big time in lots of ways, but at least the game will go on.

	11-05-2003 21:36									#182
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Is this the same crash?

I could find any info on possible fixes. Even if it was fixed in 1.14 or 1.21 (I looked but didnt see a fix) that may not help us anyway.

Try posting a couple of help threads, this is obviously gonna be another problem like 'drigate crash'.

	11-05-2003 21:36									#183
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we had a cross post.

	13-05-2003 12:25									#184
	Got spare money?

I finished replaying my turn and sent one of my units to attack a Zulu worker.

It asked whether I really want to declare war, I said yes. Then it said that I lost the supply of [censored], I said ok.

Then it crashed.

	13-05-2003 16:10									#185
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

We're ****ed unless Firaxis puts out a specific patch to deal with this. I think this is a hardcoded conflict between how we and the AI handle trades.

Last edited by SpencerH on 13-05-2003 at 16:19

	13-05-2003 16:38									#186
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Sorry we can't finish but it was fun playing the game with you guys. I will miss my early morning tour of Zululand every day.

	13-05-2003 18:06									#187
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Dont give up yet!

	13-05-2003 18:22									#188
	Inflate your Upload Space

Next idea?

	13-05-2003 20:36									#189
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Each of us should sacrifice three Cavalries to the gods. Maybe they'll manage to fix the problem.

	13-05-2003 23:39									#190
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But then you'd have none and I'd still have 20-30.

	14-05-2003 00:38									#191
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Well, it's time to get rid of those obsolete units anyway.

	15-05-2003 06:51									#192
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You think the trades and war are crashing the game?

Have you had someone use Gramphos' tool to edit the problem out?

	15-05-2003 07:11									#193
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Scratch that. His editor doesn't do diplomacy.

I have found PBEM bugs before. If you send me the save from the last player in the order 2 turns ago, and the admin password, I can see if this can be worked around.

	15-05-2003 16:12									#194
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The save is on another computer which I will get later today. Help would be much appreciated.

	15-05-2003 17:49									#195
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NYE,

Thanks for the offer

Here is the turn I sent to ELI, there is no admin password necessary. If you click on the active trades in ELI's turn (Korea) it will crash. I believe its the same crash that Jshelr had earlier. I posted the crash details HERE but you'll see that yourself if you access the active trades with the zulu.

I passed through ELI's turn (I didnt look at anything, and didnt learn anything I didnt know before) and went to the zulu turn. It didnt immediately crash, but did when I accessed the active trades with the Koreans.

Maybe Jshelr can give us details of exactly when the crash happened.

What I notice is that after the crash and exit from civ3 that my screen resolution does not return properly when returning to windows, as if there is a driver glitch. I dont know if its directly related to the game bug.

Attachment: delmar of the mongols, 1660 ad.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	15-05-2003 18:30									#196
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On my turn, the game will proceed to the finish of the turn, but then it crashes after the turn but before the save. There is a popup saying that we lost a lux trade. The game had been breaking our lux trades on us between turns frequently -- might have been every 20 turns but I did not keep track. That was a pain in the butt by itself.

	15-05-2003 18:32									#197
	Tired of ads?

this is the last save I have here. if a password is needed, email or pm me please. Thanks

Attachment: 1650 ad-russ.sav
This has been downloaded 0 time(s).

	15-05-2003 23:31									#198
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I will look at these when I get home this evening. It sounds related to the DoW bug we found in the demo game. If so, a work around may be possible.

	15-05-2003 23:53									#199
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Whats the DoW bug? It cant be searched on poly.

	16-05-2003 01:40									#200
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

In PBEM, 20 turns after peace is made between 2 humans (enforced peace expires) the game crashes at the end of the last player's (in order) turn when end turn is done. The game pops up a message 'x declares war on y' and crashes prior to saving.

/Edit. I'll be home and able to look at your saves in about 6 hours. Maybe 6 and a half. I may need earlier ones, so it would be good if you could be around, Spencer.

	16-05-2003 02:06									#201
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by the way, should we try to install 1.21 and see if that does the trick?

	16-05-2003 02:40									#202
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Not yet, 1.21 does not fix the DoW bug. That bug was found recently and should be addressed in the next patch. I would really like to know if this is the same bug, a closely related bug, or something new. Then it can be reported and fixed.

	16-05-2003 04:54									#203
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm glad to have your expertise . We really want to finish this game (ie I want to crush my enemies and hear the lamentations of their women) HAHAHAHAH

Unfortunately, I just cleaned my sav files so I only have the last four turns sent by jshelr and the last 7 I sent to ELI (including the one I attached here).

I never saw this bug though, since I have not been able to trade with either of the deadly duo (Korea and Zulu) for 1000 years. I was able to view the active trades with my ally though, the powerful AI romans.

	16-05-2003 07:38									#204
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Spencer, do you have Delmar of the Monguls 1650?

	16-05-2003 07:43									#205
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

My email is my user name @hotmail.com

	16-05-2003 13:29									#206
	Remove this text

NYE : I sent it to you.

	16-05-2003 15:51									#207
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delmar 1650 on its way to that email

	16-05-2003 21:32									#208
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We got this back from the main office:

Thanks,
I think we may have already fixed this in the next patch. A similar thing happened in the multi-site demo game and that bug has been fixed.
Either way, Pat is looking into it and there should be a fix for this in the next patch. Don't ask because I don't know when it will be released
;-)

Sincerely,

Barry Caudill
QA Manager
Firaxis Games
bcaudill@firaxis.com

	16-05-2003 21:35									#209
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I'm sort of encouraged that ultimately we may be able to finish this game. Eli and I have a couple of ideas waiting to happen that could make it pretty interesting.

Stay in touch, even if we don't get rolling right away.

	16-05-2003 22:37									#210
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Well, this is not good. There is a problem unlike what I have seen before. Trying to access trade info for the Koreans with the Zulu's crashes the game in 1660 and 1650. I am willing to keep looking at earlier saves if you wish, to try to find one which gets past the 1660 crash point. It might also help Firaxis fix it so that this bug is gone from the next patch.

Can we try 1640?