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Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 21:44
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quote:
The problem you have in France and Germany is anti-Americanism. This has nothing to do with Rumsfeld.
Actually the type of arrogance and ignorance Rumsfeld shows is part of why people don't like American policy. "Anti-Americanism" as it's called is such a misnomer. It's actually "Anti-stupid-imperialistic-American-policy". And that isn't a problem. The problem would be if nobody cared about how the US is making a bad situation worse.

And if you want to talk about giving Iraq weapons, look at your hero, Ronny Reagan.

Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:14
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We gave them arms so they could kill Iranians. It was a classic case of proxy warfare. We hated the Iranians, so we aided their enemy. Eventually things changed and we had to beat Iraq's ass.

If that confuses you then you're dumber than Rumsfeld.

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:17
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As this thread shows, he makes certain people very angry, that's good reason to like him straight away.

However, I find his ideas about 'light divisions" dangerous, he's talking about seriously degrading combat ability for a slight mobility gain.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:18
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quote:
Actually the type of arrogance and ignorance Rumsfeld shows is part of why people don't like American policy. "Anti-Americanism" as it's called is such a misnomer. It's actually "Anti-stupid-imperialistic-American-policy". And that isn't a problem. The problem would be if nobody cared about how the US is making a bad situation worse.

In that case, he does pretty well compared to Jacques "They should've just shut up" Shirak.

lightblue is offline lightblue
Chieftain
L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:20
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I quite like Rummy in a "I can't believe he just said that and noone has shut him up yet" kinda way.

The scary thing is he is in control of the most effective army on the planet as well as the army with the most WMD.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:23
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actually, he's not. But when you think about who is, you don't feel much better.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:48
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quote:
As this thread shows, he makes certain people very angry, that's good reason to like him straight away.

However, I find his ideas about 'light divisions" dangerous, he's talking about seriously degrading combat ability for a slight mobility gain.


Best post in the last three pages. The rest of you need to get on Chris's level...

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 22:53
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Watch it drake, the usual responce is for people to say how much I suck!

The man does his job, his plan was excellent, and that can't be denied.

Many hate him because he says the hard things they don't want to hear.

His "Old Europe" comment was spot on, it was both sarcastic and relivent, and STILL makes a certain amount of people hoping mad.

Back to his military ideas, I believe his over-relience on planes at the expense of organic artillery and armor would be very costly in the combat environment.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 23:02
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quote:
Back to his military ideas, I believe his over-relience on planes at the expense of organic artillery and armor would be very costly in the combat environment.


I'm still undecided on this point. The Army certainly kicked serious ass with organic artillery and armor, but the Marines also kicked serious ass with a heavier dependence on close air support. Rumsfeld's plans are risky, but they could very well turn out to be right...

Chris 62 is offline Chris 62
Emperor
But I'm feeling MUCH better now
Jan 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 23:06
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Time will tell, but for my money, give me Arty and Armor.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 16-04-2003 23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Felch X
We gave them arms so they could kill Iranians. It was a classic case of proxy warfare. We hated the Iranians, so we aided their enemy. Eventually things changed and we had to beat Iraq's ass.

If that confuses you then you're dumber than Rumsfeld.

It doesn't confuse me. It's just plain wrong.

Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 00:18
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It's the real world. And what exactly is wrong about it? Two oppresive regimes bludgeon each other to death, and we sell guns to one side. Seems like a great deal to me.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 00:30
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I like Rummy too . He's smart, witty, and tells it like it is. Great guy .

realpolitic is offline realpolitic
Prince
Rogue States of America
Mar 2002
time: 21:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 00:43 Visit realpolitic's homepage!
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Rumsfield would be wise to listen to the words of Ghandhi,"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves everyone blind and toothless".

How we're going to deal with the rest of the world after this should prove interesting, 95% of the Greeks and 91% of the Russians said they disapprove of this war.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:27 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by realpolitic
Rumsfield would be wise to listen to the words of Ghandhi,"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth leaves everyone blind and toothless".

How we're going to deal with the rest of the world after this should prove interesting, 95% of the Greeks and 91% of the Russians said they disapprove of this war.


Yeah... while at the same time having tons of American planes refuel, air refuel and aided in Suda Base in Crete protected by Patriot and S-300 missiles...

Regardless they're bigger countries than Greece to "worry" about.


Bush senior says the only thing that saddens him about Bush junior policies is that he drove away "traditional allies" (although he also doesn't like the French)

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:29
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
(although he also doesn't like the French)
They're hard to like. Thier arrogance astounds.

Felch is offline Felch
Prince
Germantown, Maryland
Sep 2001
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 01:46
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Oh dear, the Greeks and Russians don't like America.

Has there ever been a time when they did like us? It's not like that's Rumsfeld's fault.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 02:54
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
They're hard to like. Thier arrogance astounds.

You are right, the Americans are hard to like. Their arrogance astounds

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
You are right, the Amercans are hard to like. Their arrogance astounds




Personally, I think Cheney, Rummy, and Wolfowitz are the real power behind the thrown, Bush is just thier puppet. Hmmmmm....... reminds me of Tom Clancey's novel Divide and Conquer.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 05:57
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quote:
Personally, I think Cheney, Rummy, and Wolfowitz are the real power behind the thrown, Bush is just thier puppet.


Ah yes, the left's rallying cry . Of course anyone that actually has been around the White House could tell you how wrong that perception is.

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Actually the type of arrogance and ignorance Rumsfeld shows is part of why people don't like American policy. "Anti-Americanism" as it's called is such a misnomer. It's actually "Anti-stupid-imperialistic-American-policy". And that isn't a problem. The problem would be if nobody cared about how the US is making a bad situation worse.

And if you want to talk about giving Iraq weapons, look at your hero, Ronny Reagan.


Maybe. I suppose if we acted like humble church mice, the people of France and Germany would like us better. However, what I think that riles these people is our self confidence, our belief in the fundamental goodness of America and the correctness of our foreign policy.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 07:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned


Maybe. I suppose if we acted like humble church mice, the people of France and Germany would like us better. However, what I think that riles these people is our self confidence, our belief in the fundamental goodness of America and the correctness of our foreign policy.

You're exactly right Ned. Not being arrogant, treating the world with respect, and not starting silly wars would definitely make people like America better.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Ah yes, the left's rallying cry . Of course anyone that actually has been around the White House could tell you how wrong that perception is.


I wouldn't know, I've never been to the White House, I just read that Clancy book and it made me wonder. It seams that Bush is constantly pulled back and forth between those 3 neo-con wackos and Powell. I wan't making up any conspiracy theories.

Neo-conservatives.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 07:38
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The Cabinet is like a bunch of little kids fighting for control of the Radio-Controlled-President.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 17-04-2003 07:42
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quote:
I wan't making up any conspiracy theories.


Uh huh... sure. Just perpetuating one.

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:27
  Old Post 21-04-2003 06:24
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The Washington Post has jumped on the Rumsfeld bandwagon. Why don't you join the club?

quote:
Rumsfeld Stands Tall After Iraq Victory

As U.S. forces wind down the war in Iraq, Donald H. Rumsfeld stands astride the military establishment as few defense secretaries ever have.

After two years in office, he has his own people in top slots across most of the military establishment. He has triumphed in a military success in Iraq that featured an audacious war plan he helped to shape. He also looms large outside the Pentagon, injecting himself far more into intelligence matters than his predecessors and playing an unusually large role in shaping Bush administration foreign policy. He even has turned around a sour relationship with Congress.

He now is in position as never before to reshape the U.S. military along the lines he has talked about since taking office, "transforming" it into a more agile and precise force built not around firepower but around information, and willing to take risks to succeed.

Most notably, he is pushing the Special Operations Command from the sideshow niche it long has occupied to center stage in the "global war on terrorism" and other U.S. military operations. After the Iraq war, which featured one of the biggest missions ever for Special Operations forces, that command "is going to be the flavor of the month," said one defense official.

Rumsfeld still faces major challenges, most notably with respect to the Army, with which his office has had badly strained relations for more than a year. While the central role played by that service in the Iraq war may ease some of those strains, that campaign also has raised new questions about a key Army weapons program, the Apache helicopter gunship.

But few defense secretaries ever have had as much influence as Rumsfeld does now, coming off successful military campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq. "It seems to me that he is in a tremendously strong position," said Johns Hopkins University strategy expert Eliot Cohen, author of "Supreme Command," an influential study of how civilians lead militaries in wartime.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2003Apr19.html

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
Prince

Oct 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 21-04-2003 06:27 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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One (another) thing that is peculiar is how Rumsfield seems to have ttaken over the position of the Foreign Minister. So many declaration... That is the job of the Foreign Minister of a country not the defence one.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:27
  Old Post 21-04-2003 10:12
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We have been in a war, the Defense Minister assumes more power during that, not the Secretary of State.

 
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