11-06-2003 08:16									#181
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but blue is also suppose to do other things

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 08:22									#182
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BTW

where are you getting these ideas about 8th edition?

Jon miller

	11-06-2003 08:38									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller but blue is also suppose to do other things

Sure, but each colour has something it supposed to do best. For example, white is for protection and weenies (also for hosing black and red). Most people use blue for counter magic.

	11-06-2003 09:14									#184
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blue is still best at counter magic

it just use to be that blue was only counter, nothing else

they are jsut trying to broaden what blue is good at

Jon Miller

	11-06-2003 11:19									#185
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I'm getting the information from
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/ne...hp?Article=4860

As for the debate, yes, they have broadened Blue up some, but they've also made it suck. For instance, in Onslaught block where the theme is creature types, Blue has all the fun Mistform stuff that allows it to abuse that... just not enough power to actually back it up. Blue's also done card drawing, flying creatures, and library manipulation.

As a side comment, White also has a long and storied tradition as a good control color too, especially when paired with Blue. Stuff like Wrath of God, Story Circle, & Moat means you can play it slow, as well.

	11-06-2003 17:55									#186
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White and Blue go well together, see the old archetype Counterpost...

Wipe the board, take control, and then slowly pummel your opponent with 1/1 outpost tokens.

Those were the days!

Can white still destroy artifacts and enchantments? That used to be the reason for all of those white and black decks, to mitigate the only flaw of Black.

	11-06-2003 21:32									#187
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One of my blue-white control deck only has 2 Serra Angels to wack the opponent with. Got lots of counters, and nice cards such as Kismet, Stasis, Winter Orb, etc. Very, very, slow.

	12-06-2003 13:27									#188
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And very, very annoying.

	12-06-2003 18:19									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger One of my blue-white control deck only has 2 Serra Angels to wack the opponent with. Got lots of counters, and nice cards such as Kismet, Stasis, Winter Orb, etc. Very, very, slow.

You need to add Decrees of Silence to the mix and truely hardlock the game.

	12-06-2003 20:09									#190
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Decree of Silence is nice. I have 12 various counters in the deck, plus Mana Short (for tapping opponent's lands when Winter Orb comes out ), plus I got cards such as Karma, Conversion, and Blue Elemental Blast in the sideboard.

	12-06-2003 20:54									#191
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I imagine that your opponents hate you after you play that deck. Stifle might also be a good addition to that deck though.

	12-06-2003 21:43									#192
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And Caltrops is always nice in the early game

	13-06-2003 06:12									#193
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Can white still destroy artifacts and enchantments? That used to be the reason for all of those white and black decks, to mitigate the only flaw of Black.

Eighth Edition is replacing Disenchant with Naturalize and Demystify. So in that set, white will still have the enchantment destruction but less artifact destruction.

Naturalize and Demystify are cooler names than Disenchant, anyway.

	13-06-2003 08:13									#194
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I imagine that your opponents hate you after you play that deck. Stifle might also be a good addition to that deck though.

That's my one of my two good decks. The other is a white weenie. I suck at using other colours, particularly black.

	13-06-2003 10:43									#195
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I like black because it's an aggressive color - Mindstab Thrulls, Necrites, and Murk Dwellers I'm good with. I've never used most of the new black cards, but I'm not too sure about some of the current "lose life on arrival" creatures.

Take Serpent Warrior, for example. She is a 3/3 creature who costs 2B, and you lose three life when she comes into play. Trained Armodon, however, is also 3/3, costs 1GG, and has no rules text. I suppose theoretically Serpent Warrior is easier to cast because she only has one colored mana in her cost, but still . . .

	14-06-2003 10:24									#196
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Ah.

I reckon there are bad cards and good cards for every colour. For example, Will-O'-The-Wisp is an excellent black critter card, for B you get a 0/1 flyer with regeneration. Of course, there's always them Killer Bees

	15-06-2003 11:51									#197
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Back from my brief sabbatical.

UR:

I recommend Arcane Laboratory for your lockdown deck.

Absolutely brutal with Memory Lapse, or any flavour of counterspell.

	15-06-2003 19:52									#198
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You are right. That is a hosing combo when put into place.

	18-06-2003 12:56									#199
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Come and invade the official Wizards of the Coast message boards with me! You can start by posting in my thread:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthre...&threadid=44934

	18-06-2003 23:19									#200
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You want us to spam your threads?

	19-06-2003 01:10									#201
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Not for me, but thanks for the invite.

	19-06-2003 01:57									#202
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Can someone help me improve this deck I'm trying to put together?

4 Ward Slivers
4 Shifting Slivers
4 Quick Slivers
2 Brood Sliver
2 Essence Slivers
2 Root Slivers
4 Metallic Slivers
2 Victual Slivers
2 Winged Sliver
4 Muscle Slivers
1 Sliver Overlord
1 Bladewing the Risen (Just because it is a cool looking card)

2 Disenchant
1 Crop Rotation
1 Frantic Search
2 Impulse
(I'm looking for modern equivilants to these cards)

2 Dragon Arch

4 Island
8 Forest
8 Plains

Thanks to obiwan for giving me the skeleton to work with.

	19-06-2003 08:22									#203
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How fast is your deck? What is the average mana cost for your creatures?

	19-06-2003 08:38									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger How fast is your deck?

I haven't had the chance to playtest it. I'm still trying to get some of the cards off of Ebay.

quote: What is the average mana cost for your creatures?

Somewhere around 7.8 if I calculated correctly.

	19-06-2003 15:27									#205
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7.8? Seems a little high. I make it just over three.

	19-06-2003 18:16									#206
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat 7.8? Seems a little high. I make it just over three.

... if I calculated correctly. Math was never my strong suit and calculating mana curves is a foreign concept to me.

	19-06-2003 20:12									#207
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If it's 3, it's not too bad. But you might still be subject to mana screw because of the multi-colour requirements. So perhaps add some Green fast mana sources such as elfs. Or perhaps add some Retraced Image's. Another thing is you have way too many creatures - you don't need that many to kill the other wizard. You may want to drop some creatures and add things like other mana sources, enchantments (Glorious Anthem is always a good choice), etc.

Also, beware of Extinction, which is created to combat this sort of single creature type decks. So, perhaps you want to pack some counters. Envelop is an excellent choice.

BTW, you should replace your Ward Slivers with Crystalline Slivers.

Last edited by Urban Ranger on 19-06-2003 at 20:28

	19-06-2003 20:29									#208
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quote: BTW, you should replace your Ward Slivers with Crystalline Slivers.

What does a crystalline sliver do that a ward sliver doesn't?

	19-06-2003 20:36									#209
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They are just simply better. WU for a 2/2, plus the ability "Slivers cannot be the target of spells or abilities." So all you need is one of them in play. Ward Sliver at 4W is way too expensive.

	19-06-2003 20:37									#210
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(x-post)
A crystalline sliver seems to confer what is effectively protection from all colours, while a ward sliver gives protection from only one. And ward slivers are 5 mana to crystalline's 2.

Explosive Vegetation is a good mana-finder if you need one, especially if you're missing a colour, and you need it fast.