29-04-2003 00:48									#1
	The Baltic Front HQ Remove this text

Henrik could you post here from time to time what happened at your front? Thanks!

Below is Narva after a massive attack from the Germans. It held but will soon need that KV-1 (or several) to continue holding.

Henrik do you remember how many units you killed in those two stacks in the counterattack? Ill bet there was more than the usual two units in each stack.

We need details if Im going to give you another medal.

Attachment: narva.gif
This has been downloaded 208 time(s).

Last edited by conmcb25 on 29-04-2003 at 16:42

	29-04-2003 00:55									#2
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Total Units left in Narva is attached below:

Henrik how many units did you lose total?

Were they mostly Red Army Non Veterans?

Attachment: narva units left.gif
This has been downloaded 205 time(s).

	29-04-2003 10:22									#3
	First, it's the Baltic front not the Leningrad front :-p Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Below is Narva after a massive attack from the Germans. It held but will soon need that KV-1 (or several) to continue holding. Henrik do you remember how many units you killed in those two stacks in the counterattack? Ill bet there was more than the usual two units in each stack.

4 in the northern stack and 3 in the southern one.
Furthermore the panzer 3 stacks to the south where both 2 tanks each (killed by our glorious airforce and partisans).


As far as I know I haven't lost a single red army yet (however unfortunatly quite a few naval infantry's, and we do anticipate the loss of such units in the future).

Furthermore the road to Demyansk has been pillaged anticipating a German attack...

Bellow is a reconosaince photo of the current front situation:

	29-04-2003 16:44									#4
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Thanks Henrik

Sorry about the screw up in names, I ask H to change it.

Seems like NO ONE liked what I did yesterday. No wonder H Tower needed a break You guys are worse than my wife. I didn't think that was possible! I think Ill just have to line up some new Front Commanders and then start some PURGES

	29-04-2003 20:57									#5
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does Tikvin have a barracks??
you are going to need some units there, I don´t know why but the ai moves to the forest NE of novogorod

It looks like holding Narva is going to be difficult

	30-04-2003 04:11									#6
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What is Leiningrad producing? We should begin getting Cruisers while we wait for the Karls.

	30-04-2003 09:56									#7
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I'd rather have Kv1s than cruisers but currently Leningrad is in unrest due to the loss of the social pragmatism wonder and therefore is producing nothing

	30-04-2003 10:32									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik I'd rather have Kv1s than cruisers but currently Leningrad is in unrest due to the loss of the social pragmatism wonder and therefore is producing nothing

Yes yes, I have always seen the Karls down south. Crimea area.

	30-04-2003 10:43									#9
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The 3 Karls are created by events to attack Leningrad and Sevestopol.

	30-04-2003 15:32									#10
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yes, but it is easier to defend Sevastopol without perekop than to defend leningrad without narva

we are going to haveproblems if we lose narva

	30-04-2003 19:32									#11
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quote: Originally posted by EZRhino The 3 Karls are created by events to attack Leningrad and Sevestopol.

Really? What event generates the Karl in Lenningrad? I am on my fourth game of Red Front and have only seen them down south in the Crimea.

	30-04-2003 21:07									#12
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Currently the defence of Narva is more important than the eventual appeareance of fascist super weapons. The Baltic front will ask for more than one KV1 over the next few turns...

	01-05-2003 10:46									#13
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Ok, with the new turn grave news has reached us. Despite having stationed the bulk of my army in Narva the city has now fallen (taking more than 20 units with it). A karl seige mortar is at the gates of Leningrad and the city itself is so poorly guarded that it will fall easily to the fascist invadors unless we do something.
The loss of Narva also means that the Baltic front has lost the Kv1 regiment that was going to be assigned to it, as the tanks where being constructed in that very city.
Comrade Henrikov has begun preparing for his trip to the Gulags but will try to save the situation given the opertunity. Does anyone have any advice to impart on me?
Currently I am thinking of rushing as many units into Leningrad as possible, possibly attacking the karl with the few offensive units I have...

	01-05-2003 10:55									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Henrik Comrade Henrikov has begun preparing for his trip to the Gulags but will try to save the situation given the opertunity. Does anyone have any advice to impart on me?

Bring lots of blankets comrade!

Seriously the only units near that could help are probably the ones in Viipuri. That means we lose Viipuri next turn if we save Lenningrad.

And in all reality Im not sure there is anything we can do? What is nearby that is going to knock out a Karl?

Thats the real question.

Good luck while Im drinking heavily in my Dacha comrade, if I didn't like you so well you would be on your way already......

	01-05-2003 10:57									#15
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Really? What event generates the Karl in Lenningrad? I am on my fourth game of Red Front and have only seen them down south in the Crimea.

Obviously it is the Fall of Narva. As a Front Commander I have not lost Narva yet (in my four SP games) so I never got the event. Thanks I just answered my question.

By the way airlifting units is out, they will get intercepted, I tried and cancelled at the beginning of the turn.

	01-05-2003 11:34									#16
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This is grave news indeed, perhaps game threatening if we do not act quickly. How did this happen? Stukas? Is the any AAA near by? What units do we have in Luga and Novgorod? Rushbuy KV-1s and AAA in all nearby cities, also get as many Red Army units as possible to use as meat shields. Can we stall till winter when the Karl is useless? We may have to risk some airlifts, and if it comes to it, Leningrad is definately more important than Viipuri.

Last edited by EZRhino on 01-05-2003 at 12:38

	01-05-2003 11:43									#17
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Pray for the coming of winter, comrades.

Looks very bad for our Murmansk front, indeed, all of the North.

	01-05-2003 11:57									#18
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I hate to say it, but its gonna take alot of loading to get us out of this mess

Last edited by EZRhino on 01-05-2003 at 12:02

	01-05-2003 12:31									#19
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We arent sunk just yet. With a little luck we should be able to kill the Karl with the partisan, the destroyer and the KV-1 from Viipuri. In the interrim, we should move all units save for a few token defending units, to the fortress directly south of Leningrad. We should give up the Kola peninsula, and adopt a more realistic defensive strategy. Also, I would advise attacking the stack of He-111 bombers with the I-16 in Kitela. Leningrad needs AAA more than it need KV-1s, dont let it sink back into disorder,we need its production running at top capacity!

Last edited by EZRhino on 01-05-2003 at 12:56

	01-05-2003 13:06									#20
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quote: Originally posted by EZRhino its gonna take alot of loading to get us out of this mess http://apolyton.net/upload/files/EZ...sthenyoudie.bmp[/IMG]

Now that we cannot cheat and reload, funny how the game is much harder, I must say in most of my RF games I would reload a very bad turn.

When I commited myself not to cheat at all in anyway the game is a whole lot harder.

PS I was surprised to see Narva fall too, but yes 1/4 times it would when I ran the turn myself (I just couldn't believe it) the real need is AA's as once they are gone, stuka's can knock of 4-6 per turn each!

	01-05-2003 15:53									#21
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there is a NKVD north of Novogord doing turism that can be moved

	01-05-2003 19:17									#22
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So Henrik, do you want me to send you the KV1 from Viipuri to Leningrad. I don't know if it will do much, because I think Leningrad is lost ...

	01-05-2003 19:20									#23
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Send it to the square with the fortified possition on it, I'll take it from there.
All is not lost yet, I hope


I still cannot believe the city fell with so many units in it, this has never happened to me before.

	01-05-2003 19:32									#24
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You should download the game. It is really hopeless. Leningrad cannot be saved anymore I'm afraid. Those Karls are just way too strong.

	01-05-2003 20:10									#25
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I just did download the save and was able to destroy the Karl (Though that did include using the T26 in Viipuri as well as the Kv1).
I attacked with the artillery in Luga first, followed by the Kv1 and the Destroyer, after that I used the partisan, the NKVD trooper, the wounded airplane in Novgorod and then the T26 in viipuri. Note that I attack with the strongest units first to avoid the karl gaining veteran status before any serious damage has been done (unless it has it from the start, in which case it doesnt do any good at all I suppose, still it's a good precautionary measure to take imho).
However even with the Karl destroyed I wonder, will we be able to hang on to the city itself?
Possibly I could pillage the road between narva and leningrad but that wont do any good against those Wermacht SGs

	02-05-2003 00:02									#26
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Attack the stack of SGs and He-111s next to Narva with the I-16 from Kitela, and try to get as many units, it doesnt matter which, into Leningrad. They will be useful if we intend to stall till winter. I suggest emptying Luga.

Edit: it may also be possible to borrow a PE-2 from the Northwestern front and use it in conjunction with a AAA to make a road block.

Last edited by EZRhino on 02-05-2003 at 01:23

	02-05-2003 04:10									#27
	Is this allowed (reloading/testing?) Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Henrik I just did download the save and was able to destroy the Karl

Is this allowed, I know the Marshal plays the german turn and won't reload (just look what happened at Narva Oct and Minsk in Aug.

Is it considered cheating if the commanders test the turn before posting the save?

	02-05-2003 06:09									#28
	Re: Is this allowed (reloading/testing?) Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Well guys this is an interesting question. I am not going to reload a turn based on a bad german movement combat result. (Bad for us). He11 at this point in the game I could reload every turn for the next 10 years and it wouldn't change!

I personnally consider reloading 20, 50, 100 times to get the right outcome cheating. It certainly takes longer but what is the real differrence between that and just changing the attack values in rules.txt if the result is the same? Thats my OPINION btw other PBEMers dont necessarily agree with me.

However trying something to see if it could possibly work before playing the turn doesn't seem to be "cheating". I at least think it is different than Henrik reloading say 50 times.

I would say it is almost necessary. The other front commanders probably need to know if it is even possible before they commit forces that will certainly weaken their fronts.

And any good General Staff is going to decide upon several courses of action and war game them before actually deciding upon the preffered course of action.

Thats what I see Henrik doing in this case. He can come back and tell us thats its possible what it will probably take and then we can make the decision.

Now if Henrik reloaded 50 times that would be cheating, but I know Henrik well enough to know he will not do that.

Thats my opinion anyway, what do others think?

(And yes I do have experience with military staff action planning and the 5 step planning process. Didn't know I would use this stuff in CIV II!)

quote: Originally posted by Colwyn Is this allowed, I know the Marshal plays the german turn and won't reload (just look what happened at Narva Oct and Minsk in Aug. Is it considered cheating if the commanders test the turn before posting the save?

	02-05-2003 11:52									#29
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I see your point Colwyn, I didnt think of it like that however. I was instructed to download the file to have a look, so I did and when doing so I tried to throw some stuff at the Karl to test it's strength (I've never had to fight a Karl at leningrad before).
Perhaps I shouldn't have done so, as I wasn't playing my turn yet. However I didn't consider this as reloading when doing it, as when I actually play my turn, I won't be reloading during the turn (I didnt during my test play either actually) but just playing the turn and saving, hoping for the same results.

	02-05-2003 12:01									#30
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Can you retake Narva? ie destryoer remember we can airlift a KV1 into leningrad, maybe if we only wound the Karl it will be enough for it to fortify itself??

Whats you plan, i'm sure you will think of something, i'm guessing you won't abandon lenningrad!

Are you going to play your turn today?

I feel sorry for you as Narva was well defended (maybe needed a extra AA)