01-05-2003 17:46									#1
	Exxon/Mobile profit soars Got spare money?

quote: Exxon Mobil profit soars No. 1 oil company edges past Wall Street forecasts as earnings more than double in 1Q. May 1, 2003: 8:35 AM EDT NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Exxon Mobil Corp. reported Thursday that first-quarter profit more than doubled as it beat Wall Street forecasts for the period. The world's largest oil company earned $4.8 billion, or 71 cents a share, excluding special items, up from $2.1 billion, or 30 cents a share, a year earlier on the same basis. Earnings tracker First Call had a consensus analysts' earnings-per-share forecast of 70 cents. Including special items, the company earned $7.04 billion, or $1.05 a share. In a period that saw U.S. gasoline prices reach a record average of $1.722 a gallon on March 18, the day before fighting started in Iraq, Exxon Mobil's revenue rose to $63.8 billion from $43.4 billion a year earlier. The company reported record earnings from its exploration and drilling income of $3.99 billion, excluding a gain from sales of a German gas transmission unit. That's up from $1.9 billion in income a year earlier. Earnings from its refining and retail sales operations reached $723 million compared to a narrow loss from the unit a year earlier. Chemicals earnings rose 85 percent to $287 million. Shares of Exxon Mobil (XOM: Research, Estimates), a component of the Dow Jones industrial average, gained 37 cents to $35.20 in trading Wednesday.

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/01/new...mobil/index.htm

Of course, we have the highest record average per gallon of gas, and XOM shows record profits.

	01-05-2003 17:53									#2
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How much of the profits are actually attributed to high pump prices?

I know that Shell, for example, make no profit on pump sales in the UK. I think it similar for other outfits.

	01-05-2003 17:53									#3
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I'm sure there is no correlation whatsoever

	01-05-2003 17:56									#4
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Wow... sava... who cares? What is the top price you pay per gallon? $2? For premium? Wow.. big gain..

Come to Europe, and you will pay $4.50+/gallon for regular.. well that is in Spain.. I heard in Italy and UK it is much higher.. as high as $6+/gallon for regular. I am sure it is higher for premium but I can't remember...

Also you know higher profits can help the economy.. are you against higher profits too? Oh that is right, you are a communist. You hate profits.

So please spare us.

	01-05-2003 17:58									#5
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Actually Fez, the US government has a very anti-capitalistic practice. Gasoline would be about what Europe pays but the US government gives billions in subsidies to the oil companies. Who's the communist?

I don't hate profits, I hate companies fleecing the people. Especially in times of need.

	01-05-2003 18:01									#6
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Well... actually that is corporatist. Giving huge amounts of subsidies to companies... a corporatist belief.

You hate companies and you hate profits. Fleecing people? Exactly how can you be fleeced when gas prices are below $2/gallon in the US? I don't see any theft there.

In times of need? What nonsense are you on about now?

Lets take this way. In Spain the gas price is double and even triple what it is in the US. Yet our GDP per capita is $21,000 according to recent estimates. In the US the GDP per capita is $36,000. You have more spending power. So who exactly is being fleeced?

	01-05-2003 18:01									#7
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quote: Actually Fez, the US government has a very anti-capitalistic practice. Gasoline would be about what Europe pays but the US government gives billions in subsidies to the oil companies. Who's the communist?

Over 75% of the pump price in the UK is taxation. SO I find your claim extremely difficult to believe.

To get a comparable price in the US you would have to greatly increase taxes to about a 300% sales tax.

	01-05-2003 18:04									#8
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quote: The new detailed report, "Fueling Global Warming: Federal Subsidies to Oil in the United States," produced for Greenpeace by Doug Koplow and Aaron Martin at Industrial Economics, Inc found that the US government provided up to $11.9 billion in subsidies to the US oil industry in 1995 excluding the cost of defending Persian Gulf oil supplies (with their inclusion the figure rises to as high as $35.2 billion). Among the major subsidies to the oil industry analyzed in the report are: the full cost to maintain the Strategic Petroleum Reserve at $5.4 billion; tax breaks to domestic oil exploration and production at $2.3 billion; and support for oil-related exports and foreign production at $1.6 billion. Other key findings of the report: .. Oil companies continue to pay substantially less than the standard rate of corporate taxation, with payments in 1995 more than 23 percentage points below the statutory rate. The average tax rate paid by oil companies fell from 21.9% in 1981 to only 11.9% in 1995; .. Through creative accounting by oil producers and lapses in auditing practices by some government agencies, the federal government loses $200 million per year in royalties;

http://csf.colorado.edu/clim-econ/current/msg00033.html
Just do a regular internet search on the subject. You'll come up with more than enough information. You probably don't believe me, so please, find out on your own.

	01-05-2003 18:09									#9
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Where does it say that pump prices in Europe and the US would be the same without the subsidy or tax breaks?

	01-05-2003 18:10									#10
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It's statements like the following:

quote: Actually Fez, the US government has a very anti-capitalistic practice. Gasoline would be about what Europe pays but the US government gives billions in subsidies to the oil companies. Who's the communist?

that really makes it difficult to discuss stuff like this with you, Sava. Honestly, do you really believe that US gasoline prices are so low because of government subsidies???

'Tis to laugh.

	01-05-2003 18:13									#11
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Here in TN, our gas price breaks down like the following:

TN Tax - $.11/gal
US (federal) Tax - $.34/gal

(Taxes quoted from memory, but I'll look this up when I go get more gas - the taxes are clearly labelled on each pump.)

Methinks that the European taxes are substantially higher.

	01-05-2003 18:15									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Where does it say that pump prices in Europe and the US would be the same without the subsidy or tax breaks?

I said "WOULD BE ABOUT"..... not "EXACTLY THE SAME"... but "WOULD BE ABOUT". Please stop red herring yourself into a tizzy.

JohnT: If you aren't informed, then sorry, it would be difficult for you to discuss things with me. The fact is, gasoline prices in this country are significantly lower in part because of the tens of billions of dollars given to oil companies in the form of subsidies. This isn't a secret. Like I said, go to a search engine... any search engine... search for "oil subsidies" and inform yourself.

	01-05-2003 18:16									#13
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JohnT, taxes are substantially higher. In Spain, the government has been taken gradual efforts to lower them. But we still pay $4.50/gallon for regular gas... some 60% I think is taxes.

Sava, business subsidies are hardly communist. Infact they are the exact opposite.. from a system we called corporatism.

	01-05-2003 18:20									#14
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quote: Sava, business subsidies are hardly communist. Infact they are the exact opposite.. from a system we called corporatism.

Translation: We can engage in anti-capitalistic practices as long as we make money off of it. But if they do it, they are commie b4stards.

	01-05-2003 18:21									#15
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In Helsinki, gas costs about ~ €1,2 / l.
Over 4/5 of it is tax. Personally, I would go for higher taxation, if some of the neighbouring countries wouldn't have ~50% times cheaper prices.

	01-05-2003 18:22									#16
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Sava, you are like arguing with a brick wall... argue enough and it starts to hurt.

Get a clue. Business subsidies are highly capitalist. As long as you make money off of it? Exactly. That is a highly capitalist statement. Money. Communism is the elimination of money.

	01-05-2003 18:24									#17
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Fez, do some reading on the ideals of Capitalism. Subsidies go against every single pillar of Capitalism. The sooner you stop and admit the hypocrisy, the better.

	01-05-2003 18:26									#18
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Tuome: That's more expensive than what we pay!

	01-05-2003 18:27									#19
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quote: Subsidies go against every single pillar of Capitalism.

Subsidies are not capitalist. They are from a system called corporatism. That is the system I mostly identify with.

	01-05-2003 18:29									#20
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Yeah, a system called "let taxpayers pay our expenses and we reap the profits".

	01-05-2003 18:30									#21
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quote: Business subsidies are highly capitalist

quote: Subsidies are not capitalist

Which is it Fezzykins? Ask yourself... WHO YOU CRAPPIN!?

	01-05-2003 18:31									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Yeah, a system called "let taxpayers pay our expenses and we reap the profits".

What benefits the corporation ultimately benefits everybody else. That is my common belief.

quote: Which is it Fezzykins? Ask yourself... WHO YOU CRAPPIN!?

Simple typo. I meant to say the first time, subsidies are highly corporatist.

	01-05-2003 18:32									#23
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"Don't crap me now." -- Mike Ditka

	01-05-2003 18:32									#24
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quote: What benefits the corporation ultimately benefits everybody else. That is my common belief.

Yeah, I agree.

When the corporations are controlled by the state.

You're clearly not a pro-Free Market, Fez.

	01-05-2003 18:33									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I said "WOULD BE ABOUT"..... not "EXACTLY THE SAME"... but "WOULD BE ABOUT". Please stop red herring yourself into a tizzy.

Fine then, where does it say that pump prices in Europe and the US would be ABOUT the same without the subsidy or tax breaks?

	01-05-2003 18:35									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Yeah, I agree. When the corporations are controlled by the state. You're clearly not a pro-Free Market, Fez.

I am a corporatist. So I would rather prefer to have the corporations control the state.

	01-05-2003 18:35									#27
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quote: Fine then, where does it say that pump prices in Europe and the US would be ABOUT the same without the subsidy or tax breaks?

It doesn't. It's simple economics. Oil is a global commodity. All things being equal, prices should be relatively comparable without outside influences.

	01-05-2003 18:36									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Fez I am a corporatist. So I would rather prefer to have the corporations control the state.

"Corporations plus government equals Fascism" -- Benito Mussolini

	01-05-2003 18:43									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sava "Corporations plus government equals Fascism" -- Benito Mussolini

I don't like Mussolini.

	01-05-2003 18:50									#30
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I'm sure he would have liked you