02-05-2003 01:39									#121
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quote: taxes I4s less then I6, V-6, V-8 etc...

What about minivans? How are you going to deal with those? I'd prefer to avoid taxing a minivan, since they are a staple family vehicle.

quote: Towns without public transportation are small enough to walk around or ride your bike. If she's disabled or something, maybe she should move.

Ever been to Canada in the winter, Kidicious?

	02-05-2003 01:56									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Towns without public transportation are small enough to walk around or ride your bike. If she's disabled or something, maybe she should move.

sometimes you have to go to a different town (often in the smaller towns)

Jon Miller

	02-05-2003 02:05									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This weeks time magazine puts the number at 70%; the highest ever and the lowest number for rail since records have been taken.

difference may be in finished goods versus commodities (coal).

	02-05-2003 02:24									#124
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quote: The only point I made is that gas prices would be higher if we did away with subsidies.

No you didn't. You may WISH you said that, but you actually said that without subsidies, US gas prices would be the same as Europe's. Sorry, but our subsides aren't anywhere NEAR $3.00 in ever gasoline sale at a pump.

	02-05-2003 02:36									#125
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The suburban/extraurban sprawls are part and parcel of the problem, though. Currently, there is a disincentive in many areas to build medium to high density areas because there is little to no provisions for increasing public transit. Here in Toronto, to use an example, the density allowed for new developments is directly linked to the public transportation infrastructure serving that area. I would imagine that similar situations are in place throughout North America.

Don't get me wrong - it's not like I think higher taxes on gasoline coupled with improvements in public transit are the end-all-be-all solution to transportation and environmental issues. But I do think that they are a necessary part of the overall solution which involves many other facets, not the least of which is reforms to local and regional planning processes.

As for most goods being shipped by truck, that's simply a matter of it being a combination of being economical and flexible. If fuel prices jumped, you'd see an increase in the amount of goods shipped by rail, especially on and intercity basis. And again, part of the problem is existing planning where manufacturing, transfer and warehousing sites tend to be based in extra-urban areas and quite spread out, increasing the reliance on the flexibility trucking can offer over rail.

	02-05-2003 08:17									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This weeks time magazine puts the number at 70%; the highest ever and the lowest number for rail since records have been taken.

Do you have a specific quote on this? I work in the office which puts out these statistics, and this doesn't sound quite right. (Usually I would see this in our media clips, and we would welcome the opportunity to make a correction if there is a problem.)

Usually transportation market share is measured by ton-miles. A ton-mile is one ton carried one mile. IIRC, rail has about 40% of ton-miles, and truck has about 36.

Could be a couple of explanations. They could be looking just at tons, or a value of shipments, either of which would give truck a larger share. Or they could be ignoring the fact that much long-distance truck traffic actually moves by rail. For example, the vast majority of all freight between the midwest and west coast is truck trailers on railroad cars. Pick the load up in Detroit, drive it to Chicago, train to Los Angeles, truck for the last part of the trip to San Diego. FOr all the shipper knows, it went by truck the whole way.

	02-05-2003 08:56									#127
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I work in the office which puts out these statistics

I am the brute squad!

	02-05-2003 09:05									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Adam Smith I work in the office which puts out these statistics...

Yes, but you are still way behind in junketting.

	02-05-2003 09:35									#129
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quote: Towns without public transportation are small enough to walk around or ride your bike.

Many of these 'towns' don't have adequate public transportation at all. As GP can atest to, Atlanta's public transportation is a joke. A poor person simply cannot rely on it (or else they'd have to drive 10 miles to get to a station).

	02-05-2003 10:48									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Towns without public transportation are small enough to walk around or ride your bike. Many of these 'towns' don't have adequate public transportation at all. As GP can atest to, Atlanta's public transportation is a joke. A poor person simply cannot rely on it (or else they'd have to drive 10 miles to get to a station).

You can do a lot on the bike if you have balls. And the bus is not bad.

	02-05-2003 10:51									#131
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But even in the bus, you gotta sit in Atlanta traffic . And in some areas bus stops aren't close enough together.

As for a bike... . If you didn't notice, I ain't in the best of shape .

	02-05-2003 10:57									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But even in the bus, you gotta sit in Atlanta traffic . And in some areas bus stops aren't close enough together. As for a bike... . If you didn't notice, I ain't in the best of shape .

1. People ***** about the traffic. But it is not so bad if you are not in Cobb county.

2. you can do it on the bike. I'm as fat as you. The distance gets shorter the more you do it.

	02-05-2003 11:40									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious All government expenses are subsidies. There are good and bad.

sub·si·dy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sbs-d)
n. pl. sub·si·dies
Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as being in the public interest.
Financial assistance given by one person or government to another.
Money formerly granted to the British Crown by Parliament.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=subsidy&db=*

Where do you get your definition?

	02-05-2003 11:45									#134
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quote: I'm as fat as you.

It hides a fat man's soul .

	02-05-2003 12:14									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I'm as fat as you. It hides a fat man's soul .

donounderstand.

	02-05-2003 12:17									#136
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk sub·si·dy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sbs-d) n. pl. sub·si·dies Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as being in the public interest. Financial assistance given by one person or government to another. Money formerly granted to the British Crown by Parliament. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=subsidy&db=* Where do you get your definition?

This one isn't that bad. The government and the person recieving the subsidy regard it as in the publics interest, but even if it's not, it's still a subsidy.

	02-05-2003 12:17									#137
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I'd get tired too fast .

	02-05-2003 12:18									#138
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time for ice crea, got to walkj to the gas station.

	02-05-2003 12:19									#139
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bye.,

	02-05-2003 12:20									#140
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Ah, the Chevron .

You finish the Pistatio and the other flavor already?

Man, you're an ice cream machine .

	02-05-2003 12:32									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious This one isn't that bad. The government and the person recieving the subsidy regard it as in the publics interest, but even if it's not, it's still a subsidy.

I don't think the key portion is public interest, but assistance, as in a gift, something given without recieving something directly in return.

	02-05-2003 12:37									#142
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I don't think the key portion is public interest, but assistance, as in a gift, something given without recieving something directly in return.

If it's not in the publics interest then it's a bad subsidy. The same as taxes that are not in the publics interest.

	02-05-2003 12:41									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ah, the Chevron . You finish the Pistatio and the other flavor already? Man, you're an ice cream machine .

WHat it was almost gone after you left.

umm...yes.

	02-05-2003 12:44									#144
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...but it would still be a subsidy.

Which is different from, say, giving money to OfficeMax and receiving a truckload of office supplies in return.

	02-05-2003 13:06									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious If it's not in the publics interest then it's a bad subsidy. The same as taxes that are not in the publics interest.

Buying goods at market price is not a subsidy. It's an exchange.

	02-05-2003 19:05									#146
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk ...but it would still be a subsidy. Which is different from, say, giving money to OfficeMax and receiving a truckload of office supplies in return.

It's just a different subsidy. It doesn't matter if the government spends money on goods and services (the price has nothing to do with it) or it makes a transfer payment.

	02-05-2003 19:07									#147
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quote: Originally posted by GP Buying goods at market price is not a subsidy. It's an exchange.

Look at the definition the Mad Monk provided. You have a negative connotation about subsidies which is preventing you from understanding the meaning of the word.

	02-05-2003 19:22									#148
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quote: Originally posted by GP Buying goods at market price is not a subsidy. It's an exchange.

Its a form of subsidy if the government is doing so when it doesn't have to.

I don't know the deal with CAP but didn't it involve farmers' produce being bought at market value?

	02-05-2003 19:38									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch Its a form of subsidy if the government is doing so when it doesn't have to. I don't know the deal with CAP but didn't it involve farmers' produce being bought at market value?

A payment by government, perhaps implicit, to the private sector in return for some activity that it wants to reward, encourage, or assist.

Here's the best definition I could find. I wish I had my old Public Finance text book. True, the government can encourage the production of a good or service by paying market price.

	02-05-2003 19:58									#150
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The way I understand the meaning of the term is an expenditure by the government to either alter the production of goods and services or the distribution of goods and services in the economy. Since all government expenditures do that, government expeditures and subsidies are one in the same.