05-05-2003 14:13									#1
	An Israeli State from the Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That´s the vision of the israeli Tourism Minister Benny Elon.

Elon recognizes Jordan as the only legitimate Representation of the palestinian People and is now on his way to USA to present his vision to the american Government (and to exert pressure on the congress to drop the idea of a palestinian state by using his ties to fundamentalistic und evangelic christs).

Elons Plan is to dismantle the PA and that Israel annexes the Westbank and Gaza Strip, using military power in this process to destroy the Terrorist networks and deporting all relatives of known Terrorists to Jordan.
Jordan will be granted money by the international to care for the deported and all the refugees which want to leave Erez Israel and will establish cooperative relations to Israel.

Source:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...sID=0&listSrc=Y

It always scares me, how right wing some Members of Sharons government are.
That most (or all?) of the israelian Settler Organizations want to establish Erez Israel (Great Israel from Jordan to the Sea, with the Westbank included) and that they use the establishment of illegal settlements to accomplish this is no secret, as well as the fact that most of the settlements (despite they are also according to Israeli law illegal) are tolerated by the Israeli government, but I think never has a member of the Israeli government spoken so openly about plans to establish Erez Israel.

I hope there will soon be another government in Israel, one that is not influenced by the Settlers to this extent.

	05-05-2003 14:14									#2
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So, who cares? It's not like he's dictating, or even influencing foreign policy.

	05-05-2003 14:18									#3
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Of course not,
he´s just a tourism Minister
and he doesn´t speak for the whole government.

And (at least I hope so) he won´t be able to influence the american government to let his plans become real.

But I´m still scared a bit that such people could become members of the government.

	05-05-2003 14:20									#4
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yeah, me too. But Sharon needed them to widen his coalition basis. They could leave if a peace process would begin under the road map, but the coalition still wouldn't fall.

	05-05-2003 14:38									#5
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Proteus_MST :

Jordan is also part of the "promised land", so in his view Elon does a huge concession when he gives up on half of Greater Israel.

	05-05-2003 14:39									#6
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"Shnei gadot la yarden... "

	05-05-2003 16:29									#7
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I doubt Israel ever solely controlled that territory in its whole history. Its always had to share that land.

	05-05-2003 16:51									#8
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actually, it did, and much more. But that's not the point.

	05-05-2003 17:28									#9
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No evidence of that. The Pals were always there.

	05-05-2003 17:31									#10
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--- THIS THREAD IS QUARANTINED DUE TO TROLL INFESTATION. PLEASE DON'T POST ----



Azazel out.

	05-05-2003 17:56									#12
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How can anyone expect a Pal state that is geographically not contiguous? Why have Gaza?

	05-05-2003 17:58									#13
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They can unite it with west bank later

	05-05-2003 17:58									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel --- THIS THREAD IS QUARANTINED DUE TO TROLL INFESTATION. PLEASE DON'T POST ---- Azazel out.

No go ahead and post, I'm curious. Besides I have Horsie on ignore anyway. I found I don't miss anything, since he is to lazy to make real arguments anyway.

	05-05-2003 17:58									#15
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 They can unite it with west bank later

Explain.

	05-05-2003 17:59									#16
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Figure it out dammy!

	05-05-2003 18:01									#17
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No.

	05-05-2003 18:11									#18
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Too bad.

	05-05-2003 18:25									#19
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So tourism minister Benny wanna end up dead too ?



Seriously, it's not because Jordan is also part of the promised land that you are simply gonna get it... Religion shouldn't be a reason to just grab a few pieces of land..

What if Egypt suddenly says, Israel was a part of the Egyptian empire in ancient times, we want it back... Or if Turkey says Israel was a part of our ancient Hittite empire, we want it back..

you think they are going to get it simply because over 2000-3000 years ago it was their land?? I mean the reasons of this oppression are really insane... You guys think like those ancient people.. perhaps you hadn't noticed but they way people think is different now, you can't just take a piece of land because you want it! (Well okay it's possible, but with the UN and international opinion it's a lot harder)

	05-05-2003 18:28									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Proteus_MST : Jordan is also part of the "promised land", so in his view Elon does a huge concession when he gives up on half of Greater Israel.

Wow, now I am truely amazed.
I always thought, the Settlers would just consider the Westbank to be part of Erez Israel.
Never thought that Jordan would also be part of it.

Pretty ambitious

	05-05-2003 18:32									#21
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quote: What if Egypt suddenly says, Israel was a part of the Egyptian empire in ancient times, we want it back...

Well, we'll say "come and get some", They'll try, We'll whoop their asses. You know the drill. And just like you said, if they actually could muster it, noone from the Intl. community would stop them. well.

But, as I said, this is besides the point. Benny Eilon is a moron, and honestly, I couldn't care less about what he says. ( My cousin's family votes for them, though. I guess it's because of them living in Jerusalem and stuff. makes you crazy )

	05-05-2003 18:35									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST Wow, now I am truely amazed. I always thought, the Settlers would just consider the Westbank to be part of Erez Israel. Never thought that Jordan would also be part of it. Pretty ambitious

Well, you must remember that Jordan is a part of "palestine". It was artificially separated from the "palestine" province By Britain, to butter up Abdallah the 1st, after WWI, since he was supposed to get Syria, IIRC, but they gave it to the French. "Palestine" itself was separated fro the "Syria" province of the Ottoman empire, IIRC.

	05-05-2003 18:48									#23
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Too bad.

No big loss. Just ignore your statements.

	05-05-2003 18:49									#24
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Thank God I didn't write more than two lines then.

	05-05-2003 18:50									#25
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If you write more than two lines, I won't ignore you.

	05-05-2003 18:50									#26
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So azazel is a pro-military action militant

	05-05-2003 19:05									#27
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. You got me.

I've just said that if Egypt will try to take Israel it will get it's ass whooped.

	05-05-2003 19:07									#28
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quote: So azazel is a pro-military action militant

Hardly.

-Arrian

	05-05-2003 22:42									#29
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actually, it did, and much more. But that's not the point.

According to my historical atlas:
1300 BCE - Egypt controls the coast; Moab and Edom control the interior; Amorites to the north
1200 BCE - Israel appears as a tiny strip around the Dead sea; Philistines seize the coast
1000 BCE - no Israel; Philistines, Ammon, Moab, and Edom control the area; Aramaeans and Phoenicians to the north
825 BCE - puny Israel and punier Judah; Damascus emerges and absorbs Ammon; Phoenicians, Philistines, Moab, and Edom still around
670 BCE - Assyrians 0wnZ all
560 BCE - Babylonians 0wnZ all
480 BCE - Persians 0wnZ all
375 BCE - Persians 0wnZ less
323 BCE - Greeks 0wnZ all
325 BCE - Greeks 0wnZ all; Nabataeans emerge in the south
270 BCE - Yawn
220 BCE - Yawn
192 BCE - Yawn
145 BCE - Yawn
74 BCE - Jewish principalities between the Dead and the Mediterranean seas; Nabateans to the south; Acre, Armenians, and Ituraeans to the north
44 BCE - Jewish principalities and all neighbours Roman vassals
14 BCE - Herod rules a few scraps of land as a Roman vassal
67 CE - prolonged Roman police action
138 CE - Rome 0wnZ all

Where exactly do Israeli textbooks stick in a Hebrew empire?

	05-05-2003 22:49									#30
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The Kingdom of David and Solomon:



This is 950 BC, so between two of your maps. It didn't last very long (just the lifetime of the two of them) before everything collapsed.