07-05-2003 03:41									#1
	Should convicts be allowed to vote? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If released from prison, should convicted felons immediately regain voting rights?

	07-05-2003 03:53									#2
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Why not? They already paid for their offenses.

	07-05-2003 03:57									#3
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I look at voting as a right and a privilege and have no problem with the concept that people lose the right to vote while imprisoned. But but upon thier release, I like to hope that they will attempt to become productive members of society. If participating in the democratic process is part of that, I see no issue with them immediately having the vote.

	07-05-2003 03:59									#4
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For what possible reason would you not allow a convict to vote, even while he is imprisoned?

	07-05-2003 03:59									#5
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hmm well I suppose so if they have fully paid off their sentence. So this does not include parolees on probation.

	07-05-2003 04:00									#6
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No, they forfeit that right. Tough.

	07-05-2003 04:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 For what possible reason would you not allow a convict to vote, even while he is imprisoned?

Because they're dirty lying thieving scum who shouldn't be trusted with any form of responsibility or power .... oh wait, that's the politicians.

	07-05-2003 04:09									#8
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apparently, several states require various things to happen in order for convicts to regain voting rights including the passing of several years after release, a gubernatoral 'pardon' re-allowing enfranchisment, etc. it's a complicated process.

as a result, some areas of the country have significant dis-enfranchisment. I believe I heard that one in four black males residing in Washington state can not vote due to being convicts.


thanks

	07-05-2003 04:10									#9
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if people lose their civil rights (for example because of spending a part of their life in prison), it´s more probable that they´ll fall back into criminality after prison.
crime law is mainly made for preventing crimes as much as possible. so I hardly can think about anything that would be more contraproductive.

Last edited by oedo on 07-05-2003 at 04:17

	07-05-2003 04:16									#10
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Crime law sets the punishment.
Parents, teachers, good friends, and the Church prevent.

	07-05-2003 04:17									#11
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oedo I would say that before you commit ur first crime the idea is to prevent crime. but once u have broken the law and taken away someone else's rights? life? liberty? money? then there is some definite punishment involved w/ me.

and I see no problem w/ taking away a felon's right to vote.

	07-05-2003 04:21									#12
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Slowwwhand:

Parents do not exist anymore... teachers def don't give a damn... friends? you mean all those people who smoke weed or shoot up heroine? I see nothing that prevents crime

	07-05-2003 04:22									#13
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Nobody can say why this would be necessary, instead its a vindictive policy, some form of punishment that has no effect on rehabilitation and the only other demonstrable effect is it lowers the democratic voter pool. I don't understand how these laws could possibly stand.

	07-05-2003 04:23									#14
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Once their debt to society has been paid "fully"... let them vote. If we aren't going to treat them like full citizens, we shouldn't let them out.

	07-05-2003 04:27									#15
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Once you've done the time, your punishment should be over. Only ten states currently restrict ex-felons from voting. Florida goes a step further, and illegally keeps ex-felons from other states from voting, even if they've had their voting rights restored in those states. Jeb has refused to obey the law since 1998, when the Supreme Court of Florida ordered him to re-instate out-of-state ex-felons. Frankly, they should put the governor in jail for contempt. Our state government is really contemptuous of the citizens Constitutional rights.

When you consider the large number of people who are wrongfully convicted, who serve someone else's time and get out, it should be apparent that taking a ex-felon's right to vote away is just wrong.

People are so ready to crucify criminals that they never consider the effects. Yeah, let's make prison such a hell that no one will ever want to go back. And recidivism rates skyrocket, making angry, violent men, who go out on the streets more dangerous than they went in. Great! Just great! Just what we need, angry, violent men, who will kill to stay out of prison. I sure feel a whole lot safer now.

	07-05-2003 04:28									#16
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 For what possible reason would you not allow a convict to vote, even while he is imprisoned?

I can see two reasons

1. Upon being imprisoned you lose a number of rights-- they are essentially forfeit and the right to vote could be one of them

2. If permitted to vote, Prisoners could make up a disproportionate number of voters in certain towns and could sway elections for any number of local positions such as the D.A., local sheriff or even judges in some states ( if I understand their system correctly). They would not be numerous enough to make a large impact on state or national elections but imagine a large prison in a small town. The guards may be residents of a number of nearby towns and it is possible that the residents of the prison could make up the MAJORITY of voters in a given town-- I see this as undesirable

	07-05-2003 04:30									#17
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chegitz the idea of not doing something punitive to a person u've convicted of a crime because they might have been wrongly convicted is so logically unsound that it boggles the mind.

	07-05-2003 04:30									#18
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as an aside, there's also the issue of economic oppurtunities for ex-felons. most businesses will not hire them... is there any movement towards giving business tax incentives for hiring ex-cons?


thanks

	07-05-2003 04:34									#19
	Re: Should convicts be allowed to vote? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer If released from prison, should convicted felons immediately regain voting rights?

of course. they've done their time.

	07-05-2003 04:35									#20
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quote: Originally posted by gsmoove23 Nobody can say why this would be necessary, instead its a vindictive policy, some form of punishment that has no effect on rehabilitation and the only other demonstrable effect is it lowers the democratic voter pool. I don't understand how these laws could possibly stand.

Here's the reason it's "necessary." These laws are largely passed in "Republican" and/or Southern states. Black people tend to be convicted of felonies disproportionately to the percentage of crimes they commit. More simply, Black people tend to get tougher sentences for the same crime (crack v powder cocaine, for example). So, in these states, Black people are disproportionately stripped of the right to vote, which means whites and Republicans have a stronger hold on state politics.

Here in Florida, they used this BS to strip 91,000 legal voters of the right to vote, by claiming they were ex-felons (this doesn't included the thousnands of out-of-state ex-felons who were legally eligible to vote, but were illegally prevented from voting). Some people on the list were convited of crimes in the future (2007 is a date that sticks out). Others were of a different gender, but had similar names. Any connection at all got you knocked off the list (by law the company which handled the list for the state of Florida--which has billions of dollars in new contracts from the national Bush Administration now--was required to only knock off those who matched all of the requirements. Katherine Harris' office--you know, the state chair of Bush' election campaign, our Secretary of State--sent the company a letter telling them that only one match was necessary, in violation of the law).

Republicans will do anything to win . . . and they're proud of it.

	07-05-2003 04:39									#21
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Sure ex-felons should be allowed to vote.

But honestly, I doubt most ex-felons would vote even if they could.

ACK!

	07-05-2003 04:39									#22
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Convictes should be allowed to vote during their treatment as well. They are still citizens of america and still have the right to vote.

	07-05-2003 04:40									#23
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A goodly portion of Southern states are Democrat.
They don't want convicted felons voting either.

	07-05-2003 04:41									#24
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1 in 4 black males in some states are ineligible to vote due to being convicts

	07-05-2003 04:42									#25
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i don't know.

i don't see a reason to keep them from voting, but neither do i see a reason to allow them to vote.

i say keep the status quo, because there's no pressing need to change it. they lost their right to vote--tough.

	07-05-2003 04:43									#26
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quote: Originally posted by yavoon chegitz the idea of not doing something punitive to a person u've convicted of a crime because they might have been wrongly convicted is so logically unsound that it boggles the mind.

If that's the way you want to look at it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be punished. But when you make the system a living hell, you only make it worse for those of us who have to live with the criminals once they've done their time. Unless you're suggesting that every crime be life imprisonment or death, sooner or later we have to deal with these people. Maybe you want to punish them, but I don't want them "punishing" me or anyone I know, just cuz they're mad at how they were treated in prison.

Current recidivism rates are 60% in the US. Clearly, the current system isn't working. Interestingly, a gardening program at Rykers Island in NYC only has a recidivism rate of 10%. These prisoners aren't brutalized, and get quality time outside and learn a valuablen trade (as opposed to punching license plates or making calls for TWA--taking jobs from people who aren't criminals, btw). Gee, maybe they're doing something productive for society, actually reforming criminals.

	07-05-2003 04:46									#27
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I dont know of the NYC program. can they expell ppl from the program? are they selective about who enters the program?

I'm not against effective rehabilitation but unlike liberals I place the onus on the person, not the society.

	07-05-2003 04:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i don't know. i don't see a reason to keep them from voting, but neither do i see a reason to allow them to vote. i say keep the status quo, because there's no pressing need to change it. they lost their right to vote--tough.

As I see it you need a good reason to strip someone of their right to vote in a democratic country.

	07-05-2003 04:49									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Sure ex-felons should be allowed to vote. But honestly, I doubt most ex-felons would vote even if they could.

Most people in the US don't vote, so of course most ex-felons don't want to vote. Consider this, however, felons are disproportionately Black (and Hispanic). Black are more likely to vote, because it's a right won within living memory. Many of them have grandparents who couldn't vote. Bunnygrrl votes, even when she's got no one to vote for, simply because people died so she could have the right to vote.

The counter tendency, however, is that most criminals are poor. Poor people are much less likely to vote than other Americans. Criminals are also less educated. The less educated are less likely to vote (although they tend to vote Republican--fact, not a jibe).

	07-05-2003 04:50									#30
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there are two other things to keep in mind with recidivism rates... one, the job oppurtunities for ex-cons are pretty lacking... and two, jail aint that bad compared to how some of these ex-cons would be living without good jobs or educations... a friend of mine's father is a prison guard and he says that many criminals return within a year of being released and don't seem to mind. jail is a roof over your head and food in your mouth... though ultimately, it's better to be free than in prison, thats still something to keep in mind