 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
finbar
|
 |
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
And also why repeating it has proved so hard in a way? Can lightning strike twice? |
It helps to have the same team in place.
quote:
Only if you are France facing the Pumas.  |
I just had an email from God. He's got the lightning bolts ready. They have an appropriately Bleu tinge about them. Oh, and He uses a Mac, BTW.
quote:
Give it a ‘burl’ as your countrymen would say – I’ve been quite pleased with it myself. |
I'll check it out.
quote:
Logic at this time of the morning? Are you tea total Finbar? |
I'm never a huge imbiber, but I was modest in my intake because I had to get up early this morning. Which, in fact, I didn't. But I've just stuffed and rolled the Beef Fillet ready for roasting for tonight, the garnishes for the Grilled Swordfish are done and the Swordfish itself will be grilled just before it's served, the Zucchini Soup starter is done, and I'm tackling the Roasted Pears for dessert next. So I'm well on the way to an uninterrupted viewing of England -v- ABs.
quote:
All fair points – but give Civ 3 a stab, say on one level below your Civ 2 favourite (Deity) and see how quickly the AI hands you your ass. They really did make it a very good cheat indeed in some ways. |
I think they probably had to. The AI in Civ 2 was so quickly proved to be hopeless. I have no doubt human players will eventually reduce the Civ 3 AI to the same hopeless state.
quote:
Easy going and full of flair? Relaxed and unhurried? Or
stubborn in his viewpoints?  |
Obviously the latter. Despite his claim to the contrary above.
quote:
And here’s to a great four hours of concentrated rugby – that’s how every Saturday should be. |
Go the All Blacks!
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
Oh the irony of my sneaking in the next post after that.  |
I timed it deliberately for you.
quote:
Good grief that was breathless stuff! What a huge game.
I think what surprises me most is that England simply did not play that well. The defence was awesome and I have to admit defence won the game. I’m sure the Kiwi press will use that to lay into us but at the end of the day the boys no longer need to care about that?
Carlos failed that first examination on stepping up to the big arena – and whilst his counterpart also had a quiet game the difference between them was Wilko could compartmentalise his kicking. Carlos should have kicked several of the chances he blew. |
I thought England were mighty strong and mighty courageous and the ABs pretty disappointing in a scrappy game. England's defence did win it for them along with some sub-standard AB ball-handling. Obviously the former contributed to the latter, but with the ABs' massive territory and possession advantages, particularly in the first half, they should done a lot more. And, as you note elsewhere, failing to capitalise when two men up, particularly from the attacking positions they had set up, was telling. I also noted that England has learned from what I'm told is the exclusively SH habit of deliberate time-wasting. There's nothing like contrived stoppages to speed the return of binned players. 
Carlos' goal kicking under pressure has long been a worry. He should have slotted just about all of them. Goal kicking aside, I thought he contributed more than Wilkinson did for England, consistently finding holes and his acceleration exposing some lumbering defence.
J****, I have to say, was outstanding. He just about singlehandedly drove the team while the two were in the bin. I now see what you mean. What is England ever going to do without him? I was also impressed by Dallaglio's effort.
Oh, and Ben Cohen could easily be called a Rugger Tubbie.
I don't know who else had the Kiwi FoxSports commentors including Murray Mexted. I've never heard so much bilge talked about a referee. Yes, the ref penalised - a lot - but the infringements were all there. Both teams consistently infringed, often obviously deliberately, and, with the ref having issued at least two general warnings, the cards were warranted. I thought J****'s behaviour through it all was less than exemplary, blatantly ignoring the warnings, presumably preferring to count on his team's defence to stand up when the inevitable yellow card or cards happened. Or didn't he think the ref was serious? Poor captaincy, I thought. As it happened, the team's defence did stand up.
What did the match mean? Beyond the achievements on the day? I would expect big improvement from the ABs playing their first Test for seven months - better ball-handling, more fluidity, meaning better use of the backs. If England can improve on that performance, and if J**** and Wilkinson stay fit, which I think is the key, they have as good a chance as anyone of lifting the WRC. As to our chances, see below.
quote:
As for Mr Howlett – well I want him at Tigers is all I can say. What a player. I think Caligastia may need to conceed when he does see it that there was somewhat more than a hint of offside leading to his try though. |
I missed that bit and the replay! 
quote:
‘Rocky Cocky’ seemed to struggle with the step up to test level – but there is raw speed there. |
He did struggle, but it wasn't a winger's game. OTOH, Tests often aren't, which is one of the diffs between S12 and Tests.
quote:
After that a thoroughly entertaining Wallaby game. Wales gave it their all and if only they could have converted that early pressure it might have been a closer contest – but in the end the gulf in class showed with the Wallabies finishing ability just way ahead – and Sailor of all people breaking the Welsh with those two early scores. However the Aussies did look strangely indecisive at times and I think they have work to do for next weekend. |
Face it, if the Welsh had anyone with an ounce more speed or experience or talent on the outside, they would have scored several times. I climbed into bed last night after the dinner party - which went rather well, the Beef Fillet Stuffed With Pancetta, Parmesan, Olives and Parsley was a triumph, if I do say so myself - and watched the tape of the match. And how I despaired. Somehow, typically, the Wallabies took a large step backwards from last week against Ireland.
I don't know the Welsh team, apart from their abysmal record, so I don't know whether they played way above themselves, but they too frequently had us scrambling. Take out our couple of very soft tries and it becomes a narrow win. We lacked concentration, intensity and strategy. The only comfort I took was the strong showing by Nathan Sharpe and the workrate of young David Lyons who could be anything if he worked harder. I would also expect Matt Rogers to appear at least on the bench next week.
quote:
Oh and the young Welsh scrummy had a great game in adversity don’t you think Finbar? |
Good little player. And I mean little. Looks like he belongs in Toy Story 3. If they had his athleticism and skills outside him, they would have scored several times. Very unlucky not to score himself. Gee, he's quick.
I don't know who your commentators were, but we had ex-Wallaby prop Dan Crowley doing special comments. He's proving to be a bit of a find with some astute observations. He fears for our scrum against any half-decent NH team. As do I. We battled against the Irish, we struggled last night. Crowley points out that it's not just about brute strength, that a half-decent NH front row leaves us for dead in craftiness.
Frankly, given what I saw from the Wallabies last night, and if England can back up from last night, we could get hammered next week. Obviously we will rise to the challenge - that's our history, we did it last November at Twickenham after the debacle against Ireland - but if we do, one really needs to ask where the intensity was last night. The WRC is obviously a potential graveyard for teams who rely on rising to a challenge.
quote:
I see the Kiwi lock Williams has been cited for rucking Lewsey’s head. I saw it but was going to save it for later discussion. It was very dangerous – the ABs already had the penalty for Lewsey not releasing smartly – I suspect Williams will struggle to defend it. However please note the independent official did the citing – we have not complained. |
J**** complained, justifiably, on the field and the ref quite rightly pointed out that neither he nor the assitant ref saw it - they couldn't, it was on the other side - and it would be followed up on video. Which it was. It was silly and excessive by Williams.
quote:
And as I write this 25 mins into the Bok game Scotland are making a damn good show again – leading 13-6. |
But it wasn't to last. The Boks came back to win. I only saw about 20 seconds of it while I was loading the Wallabies -v- Wales tape into the VCR.
But I've just heard Les Bleus went down to the Pumas 6-10. My only comment is to ask if anyone remembers the mid-late 1960s single by Lou Christie called "Lightning Strikes (Me Again)"?
Last edited by finbar on 15-06-2003 at 09:12
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
LDiCesare
|
|
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:27
|
|
quote:
J****, I have to say, was outstanding. |
Now I know finbar is ill. The English captain (from Leicester) must really have been astounding.
I didn't see any match, thanks to our great TV channels here. I read that the French had been unable to score despite lots of opportunities, notably because of ball-handling errors. That, a try which was refused (although being said valid by even non French sites), and poor goal-kicking, seem to have spelled the doom of our team. Plus taking a try in the opening, this tends to prove that the players were not prepared correctly for this match. I hope they'll do better next match.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
I'm about to go out for Sunday lunch but I just had to tell you I'm framing this bit! |
I have to call it as I see it. I'm still trying to mop the blood out of my keyboard.
quote:
You were right however - Jonno failed to stop the infringements after clear warnings - not his best captaincy although Dally did admit he made the call on his error as J had warned him to be careful. |
So Dallaglio's performance on his way off the field - head-shaking, bemused grin as if to say the ref's a f*ckwit - and continued while sitting on the bench was all for show? Dallaglio's performance was, unfortunately, only a continuation of J****'s attitude to the ref for most of the match - contempt. Hopefully, for your sake, that will change because it could prove costly.
quote:
Eddie really is tough isn't he - it seems insane to drop Flatley? |
It turns out Flatley went out "celebrating with friends" after the match, slept in, and missed the session. Andrew Walker was dumped (the first time) for a fairly similar thing. Yes, it's tough, but they know the rules. What does one do? Bend the rules because there's an important match next week? What example does that set?
It seems either Joe Roff or Nathan Gray will slot into 5/8. Their sum total combined experience in the position in their lives is about ten minutes. If young Matt Giteau had been fit, he'd've got the job. Nathan Gray is more likely to get the job because he comes off the bench to do it, leaving Roff in an unchanged backline. Matt Rogers and Matt Burke have both been called into the squad. Rogers has now had two club matches back after 3 months off with his broken foot, so I'd expect him to join the bench to cover just about every position between #10 and #15 (inclusive).
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Seem to be some major refereeing problems in rugby at the moment. Why? |
Good question. There are many answers.
Despite the IRB's various attempts at clarification, a number of the laws - particularly dealing with the goings on at the breakdown - rely on the refs' judgement. A tackled player is required to release the ball, but how long is the tackled player given to release the ball? The tackler is required to release the tackled player (when on the ground) but how long is the tackler given? Some refs see the requirement as instantaneously, some see it as immediately, which are marginally different things. Some refs allow even more leeway. So you're dealing with margins, and individual judgements on those margins.
This year, for a while anyway, it seemed that the IRB had told the world's refs that "instantaneously" was the go. Both in the NH and SH, refs were pinging players who didn't release the ball (or the tackled player) absolutely instantaneously. That, of course, raised the question of whether the pinged player had had time to do what was required. Now, from my observation anyway, the "instantaneously" seems to have disappeared and refs are back to making individual judgement calls.
Then there's the lineout. The law requires a tunnel of space between the two lines of jumpers. For whatever reason, some refs police it, some don't. Same with the law that requires the ball to be thrown straight into the lineout. For whatever reason, some police it, some - unless the throw is totally wayward - don't. And, worse, some refs will police it sometimes during a game but not all the time. See below for the consistency problem.
OTOH, I've often thought that the modern game places great demands on the ref. The ball can travel at great speed, there's one ref on the field with one set of lungs and one pair of eyes. Suddenly he's at a breakdown or ruck and he's watching the activity around the ball at the same time as he's policing offside meaning he's having to look in three different directions. It's a big ask, and they're often relying on their touchys' observations. Trouble is, the touchys can be a long way from the action and watching from a less than satisfactory angle. Earlier this year, someone did suggest a second ref on the field as a second set of eyes, but it was laughed at. The AFL now uses three umpires but then the AFL now resembles basketball more than any sort of football.
The biggest problem for rugby is refereeing consistency and/or lack of consistency. Not just consistency between different refs' judgements, but, more importantly, consistency from a ref within a game. If a ref makes his judgements to a consistent pattern in a game, fine. Everyone knows where they stand. Too often, though, a ref, within a game, can confuse everyone with different interpretations of identical situations.
As someone once said, rugby is one of the simplest games on earth. Somehow or other, along the way, it has turned into one of the most complicated. That, I suspect, along with human failings, is the bottom line to the problem.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Havak
|
 |
Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:27
|
|
quote:
I read that the French had been unable to score despite lots of opportunities, notably because of ball-handling errors. |
I only caught a few minutes of the game (as the fourth game of the day I was pushing my luck a little) but it was error strewn even in that small timeframe.
quote:
How can a referee ignore such basic laws like offsides and especially turned scrums. |
Steve Lander, like Chris White, took tri-nations duties in 2002. Draw your own conclusions.
quote:
Ali Williams has been cleared by the disciplinary panel on the grounds that stamping on Lewsey's head was incidental and inadvertent |
It’s very hard to agree with this ruling. How the lad had the gall to claim it was accidental is beyond me.
quote:
Hopefully, for your sake, that will change because it could prove costly. |
It can be a problem. He unfortunately knows the law book too well for a skipper in some ways and his personality is not to back down an inch. On the whole though his positives greatly outweigh these negatives.
Dallaglio admitted in a post match interview with Sky that he “made the call” to kill that phase of play himself – so I have to assume all the grimacing was show-boating yes.
Interestingly Lewsey also gave an interview after being stitched up. He said he was furious after his head was stamped on and complained to his skipper who (and I paraphrase here) said “it happens, get over it. Sort it out after the game”. Such a refreshingly pragmatic attitude?
quote:
What does one do? Bend the rules because there's an important match next week? What example does that set? |
At a guess that the players not the coach are in charge – and I agree it’s not on to do so. But Gray in the breach – hmmm?
quote:
It was a truly Herculean effort. He carried them. It was just a pity his attitude to the ref undermined his overall performance. |
I think that was nicely illustrated by him calling the ref ‘mate’ all the time?
I’d like him to have a temperament closer to Ealesy but I’ll settle for his qualities as they are. As I said last week his onfield presence as a skipper will be very hard to replace for club and country.
quote:
As someone once said, rugby is one of the simplest games on earth. Somehow or other, along the way, it has turned into one of the most complicated. That, I suspect, along with human failings, is the bottom line to the problem. |
That was actually a very interesting analysis. I think you are right that the ref now needs to keep an eye on so much that it’s hardly possible to do so.
The England game gave a perfect example – as Spencers boot made contact with the ball Howlett is at least two metres ahead of play. The ref though has his back to the fullback and the touchy is watching the ball and out of position for judging the game line.
One spectacular score later (guys like Howlett don’t need starts like that and it’s not fair when they get them) and unhappy English fans are calling the ref – but in this case unfairly IMO – even I don’t expect refs to have eyes in the back of their heads and he was doing the right thing in watching the ball.
It’s tricky. I still maintain a balance is needed between continuity and competition – and we aren’t right on that at the moment. I’m also coming to accept Finbar’s view on the gulf between S12 and Test – I don’t think S12 is helping your players any more as it’s not preparing them for test rugby.
I see the usual reactions have been rolled out, not least Mr Jones making sure everyone knows ‘England kicked to victory’ and ‘we know NZ are slow starters’. Let me balance that by saying that England did not play well, that this is the tenth month of our season and that a lot of our players apparently reach the IRB game limit next weekend (until the clock resets in August). So whilst, despite S12 having been run, one might claim the Kiwis are slow starters it really doesn’t excuse them to my mind.
My biggest fear for the ABs is that they will smash Wales this coming Saturday and then somehow convince themselves everything is all right again. If that happens they may face a shock again when the French pack turns up.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Havak
It can be a problem. He unfortunately knows the law book too well for a skipper in some ways and his personality is not to back down an inch. On the whole though his positives greatly outweigh these negatives. |
If I were English, I would quite agree. OTOH, he could have cost the team on the weekend. Presumably he wouldn't adopt the same attitude in a more important match.
quote:
Interestingly Lewsey also gave an interview after being stitched up. He said he was furious after his head was stamped on and complained to his skipper who (and I paraphrase here) said “it happens, get over it. Sort it out after the game”. Such a refreshingly pragmatic attitude? |
Very sensible. J**** had already drawn the ref's attention to it.
quote:
At a guess that the players not the coach are in charge – and I agree it’s not on to do so. But Gray in the breach – hmmm? |
It's literally a matter of who's available. Matt Rogers was tried there in one of the Waratahs' trial matches and flubbed it trying to do too much. But he's only two club matches back from 3 months off anyway. He'll be on the bench when he really shouldn't be. He might even start, which would be ridiculous, but that's the situation we're in. Matt Giteau's out of action with his cracked kneecaps. Even Josh Valentine, the scrummy with so much potential who can also play 5/8, is over your way with the U 21 team. (We won't mention what the U 21 Wallabies did to your lot the other day! )
So who's left? Nathan Gray and Joe Roff are the only ones in the squad who have ever played 5/8 and even then, as I said, for about 10 minutes in their careers. If they use Roff, they break up the Roff/Latham combo which, under the current weakened circumstances, is crucial to us. Besides which, they'll be needed to protect Wendell when Wilkinson starts bombing him from the kick off on Saturday. Gray's got very good hands, good reflexes, can think, and certainly doesn't lack courage. Under the circumstances, it's the best we can do.
quote:
I think that was nicely illustrated by him calling the ref ‘mate’ all the time? |
I wonder if he calls any ref "Sir" as our wee George does.
quote:
That was actually a very interesting analysis. I think you are right that the ref now needs to keep an eye on so much that it’s hardly possible to do so. |
You only have to watch them desperately trying to watch offside and the action around the ball. It's ridiculous.
quote:
I’m also coming to accept Finbar’s view on the gulf between S12 and Test – I don’t think S12 is helping your players any more as it’s not preparing them for test rugby. |
How do you prepare for Test rugby? It can't happen in S12 because of the vastly different standards within the competition.
quote:
So whilst, despite S12 having been run, one might claim the Kiwis are slow starters it really doesn’t excuse them to my mind. |
Seemed to me it was their first Test for seven months and they played like it. Their handling in the first half was appalling, which is very unlike them. I would expect natural improvement.
quote:
My biggest fear for the ABs is that they will smash Wales this coming Saturday and then somehow convince themselves everything is all right again. If that happens they may face a shock again when the French pack turns up. |
Not if the ABs re-christen themselves the Pumas.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
finbar
|
|
Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:27
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by ravagon
Ironically thats exactly how the Australian media hyped the wallabies victory over the weekend. Apparently the relevant (this week anyway) factor is the number of tries scrored, hence none of the other major teams "could match Australia's performance".
They just forgot to mention "Wales" in the same breath.
Funny that ... |
You read the wrong papers, watch the wrong TV or listen to the wrong radio. Here in Sydney, the media worth reading called the Wallaby performance for what it was - very disappointing.
I quote Greg Growden in the Sydney Morning Herald:
"Australia scored five tries, but there were too many miserable moments, especially in the second half, for the Wallabies to believe that they have the composure or ability to overhaul England in Melbourne on Saturday night.
Wales lacked numbers, names and big-time performers. But that did not stop them from making Australia look ordinary for long stretches of play, and their swarming defensive work, particularly in tight, had the caused the Wallabies to make a number of ridiculous mistakes at the breakdown".
Hype? Um, I think not.
Last edited by finbar on 16-06-2003 at 18:51
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:27.
Apolyton Time is 00:27. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
14-06-2003 01:57
|