07-06-2003 03:47									#151
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The ceremony has already come and gone, so it is indeed "case closed" They can't very well go back in time and undo it. Having said that, three times a trend doth make. It is not up to me to furnish proof of any sort as to this girl's academic behavior, but surely you recognize that a willingness to commit not one....not two, but three separate instances of plagarism somewhere (*anywhere*) makes the entire of her body of academic work suspect, and therefore subject to close scrutinity.

I'm not saying they should reverse the decision without looking into it, I'm saying that her own actions make her suspect.

-=Vel=-

	07-06-2003 04:04									#152
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http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348380

"When it learned of the Courier-Post’s plagiarism concerns, Hornstine’s high school conducted its own investigation into the student’s academic portfolio, but found no history of academic dishonesty, said Kudatzky."

	07-06-2003 05:52									#153
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quote: I'm seriously doubting that anybody is hanging onto the edge of their seats to find out what we, the folk of 'poly think about the case under discussion.

Then should we stop discussing everything then?

--

And as Boris has shown there is no evidence that she plagerized during school work... so she gets to be sole validictorian, but is a whiny loser, who deserves to have her acceptance from Harvard taken away because of plagerism. So there .

	07-06-2003 06:52									#154
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Good. It was suspect. They looked into it. I'm glad they found nothing, and equally glad they looked into it.

As to stopping the discussion....nahhh.....that hasn't changed, and it's never stopped us before....

-=Vel=-

	07-06-2003 06:57									#155
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an interesting article...

	07-06-2003 08:18									#156
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quote: And they certainly shouldn't have, once the exemptions were granted, backpedal come graduation and say her exeptions are going to penalize her status.

Good point, Boris.

However, all this says is that one or the other must be wrong, either the exemptions were wrong in the first place, or the subsequent backpedalling. I favour the first explanation that the school erred in offering her PE exemptions.

I should also mention that in a civilised country like Canada, PE is only required up to Grade 10.

	07-06-2003 08:25									#157
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Q Cubed, what do you think the IQ of that author is?

The whole article is just attempt to whitewash Bush... "Yes, Bush might be incredibly stupid, but thats' a GOOD thing"...

Of course, his article is flawed... with passages like this:
Answering that question brings us back to the president. Well, President Carter, anyway. As the fictitious Lovenstein Institute reminded us, Jimmy Carter's stellar intellect has become an article of faith. This nuclear engineer was also a poet. And yet, he looked Leonid Brezhnev in the eye (perhaps he gazed into his soul, as Senator Barbara Boxer claimed to have done with John Ashcroft), kissed him on both cheeks, proclaimed him a partner in peace--and then watched the Soviet Union invade Afghanistan. A quarter-century later (around the time Carter kissed Kim Jong Il and returned from Pyongyang proclaiming peace for our time), President Clinton, a man who devoured whole libraries on his vacation, did the same with Yasser Arafat--and ever since, Israel has been paying the price for Clinton's belief in the power of his intellect. Rwanda, Somalia, and Srebenica paid similar prices.

Minor details such as that Breshnev just had signed the SALT II treaty, that Carter had just defused a situation that many though would lead to a new Korean war and that Arafat wasn't the source of Israels occupation of Palestine is naturally not mentioned. Wouldn't fit with the right-wing hatred of Carter and Clinton, would it?



That said, he does have some good points. Intelligence is not enough to be a great leader. You also need wisdom. Maybe you could even get by on nothing BUT wisdom... After all, one of the first insights a wise man would have would be to trust his intelligent experts on complicated issues...

Sadly, Bush is neither. And this is exacly what makes him so dangerous...

	07-06-2003 08:29									#158
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So, back on topic: Is Ms. Blair wise? I don't know... Maybe it would have been better just to suffer in silence.

Is she right?

Yes, definetly. Imagine the outcry if she was the first black valedictorian ever, and the school decided to change the rules and make her share the honor with two less accomplished white students...

	07-06-2003 08:37									#159
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Maybe you didn't read the entire article...it was impossible for the abled students to score as high as her because she was exempt from classes such as PE that were weighted less in the GPA. Also, it turns out that her disease is mostly bogus.

	07-06-2003 08:40									#160
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 I should also mention that in a civilised country like Canada, PE is only required up to Grade 10.

I disagree with that. I'd think PE would be even more important considering your health care system.

	07-06-2003 08:52									#161
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Wait...wha?

quote: Kenneth Mirkin had hoped to become the co-valedictorian. According to the school district Superintendant, Mirkin actually has a higher GPA.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/05...ian-update.html

	07-06-2003 09:24									#162
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quote: Maybe you didn't read the entire article...it was impossible for the abled students to score as high as her because she was exempt from classes such as PE that were weighted less in the GPA.

I'm sorry, but that isn't her fault.

Look, while the whole idea that you can have a GPA of 4.6/4.0 revolts me, you can't change the rules halfway through. Even less after the race.

So if you are looking for someone to critizise, go after the school board who didn't make sure that every class was weighed equally, or the state education board, or whoever is in charge higher up.

The fact remains, though: The girl played the hand she was dealth, and the school board tried to take it away from her by chaning the rules...

quote: Also, it turns out that her disease is mostly bogus.

Well, the judge didn't agree with that assessment...
Judge Freda Wolfson agreed and ruled that "evidence has shown Miss Hornstine earned the distinction in spite of, not because of, her disability."

	07-06-2003 10:52									#163
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quote: Wouldn't fit with the right-wing hatred of Carter and Clinton, would it?

Why? They have more than enough to gripe about from thier foreign policy.

	07-06-2003 11:11									#164
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quote: Why? They have more than enough to gripe about from thier foreign policy.

? I don't follow you.

	07-06-2003 11:20									#165
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quote: Originally posted by CyberGnu ? I don't follow you.

Why would right wingers care about the events you listed when they have more than enough evidence to justify thier dislike of the respective presidencies? Would you like Bush if he did one thing you could support?

	07-06-2003 11:34									#166
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quote: I'd think PE would be even more important considering your health care system.

That's why they have PE up to grade 10. They figure, and I agree, that there are much more important things to do in your final two years to prepare for university rather than spend school time in PE. Also, due to exemptions, the students who most need to attend PE, obesity, etc, often don't have to go.

	07-06-2003 12:26									#167
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quote: Why would right wingers care about the events you listed when they have more than enough evidence to justify thier dislike of the respective presidencies? Would you like Bush if he did one thing you could support?

Because "and then those bastards made sure everyone had health coverage" is harder to misrepresent?

You tell me. If they have better things to smear Carter and Clinton with, why do they keep repeating the same tired lines?

	07-06-2003 20:58									#168
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quote: I'm sorry, but that isn't her fault.

Like I said and like I'm going to reiterate below: Her disease was bogus. I mean, all of us were at least expecting someone in a wheelchair! Someone on page 3 of this thread (or somewhere) said it was some asthma-type condition. I wouldn't call NJ the best place for asthma, but give me a ****ing break! She's giving disabled people all across the nation a bad name, and she's not even really disabled. I can see exempting her from PE if it was really bad, but (1) she still could've been able to go to normal classes without tutoring, which could have affected her GPA (yes, a class of 1 is a lot more conducive to learning than that of 25) and (2) since she was exempted from PE she either should've been disqualified for Valedictorian or had an equally-low-weighted class (or something like.)

quote: Look, while the whole idea that you can have a GPA of 4.6/4.0 revolts me, you can't change the rules halfway through. Even less after the race.

4.6 GPAs are indeed disgusting.
However, who changed the rules halfway through? I can't think of a schoolboard that wouldn't allow multiple Valedictorians, and is it really going to tear apart her life if she has to share the spot with two people? She's probably got the social skills of a newt since those 2 years of private tutoring away from the outside world, so it might, but we can't pamper people just because of their own mistakes. In fact, several school districts have co-Valedictorians, and I don't see any problem from it...this ***** was the first person to be *****y enough to abuse the courts for her own microscopic gain.

quote: So if you are looking for someone to critizise, go after the school board who didn't make sure that every class was weighed equally, or the state education board, or whoever is in charge higher up.

Or go after the ***** who doesn't even have enough consideration for 2 other people who thought they would be able to say "I was Valedictorian" to at least share the spot with them. She's talking about how her own feelings were hurt and she couldn't give a ****ing flip about the other two people! Also:

quote: Kenneth Mirkin had hoped to become the co-valedictorian. According to the school district Superintendant, Mirkin actually has a higher GPA.

quote: The fact remains, though: The girl played the hand she was dealth, and the school board tried to take it away from her by chaning the rules...

The girl threw away her hand and got a better hand and then insisted she was playing by the rules of the first hand, if you're going to use analogies all the time.

Also, the school board never took Valedictorian away from her. There is no prestige lost in Valedictorian if you have to share it with a person or two. (Actually with the 4.348 over 4.346 kinds of scores we see today, I'm not sure there's really any prestige left )

quote: Well, the judge didn't agree with that assessment... Judge Freda Wolfson agreed and ruled that "evidence has shown Miss Hornstine earned the distinction in spite of, not because of, her disability."

Judges are not superheroes. Judges are normal people. Just like normal people, judges can be dumbasses too. I hope the case is appealed and the school district wins it.

Just don't tell me you also agree with the $2.7 million in damages that she's seeking.

	07-06-2003 23:45									#169
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quote: who changed the rules halfway through?

Um... the school district. There was no multiple validictorian rule before this year and was made specifically for her. I know you want this overturned, but guess what, it won't. This is a clear discrimination case. They changed the rules in the middle of the year, so the girl wouldn't be the sole validictorian.

Case closed.

	08-06-2003 04:50									#170
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell (1) The girl's disease is bullshit

no it isn't.

(2) The girl's claim for Valedictorian is bullshit

no.

(3) The girl's $2.5mil is bullshit

It would be funny isn't it?

(4) The girl's essays are bullshit

(5) This girl is full of bullshit.

no and it's more offending than if someone would say BUSH IS AN IDIOT.


She was just inspired by Clinton. I seen essays that were more copied however. It's fairly common on shools. She is on Hign shool not on uni, right? Well I think being inspired by Clinton is very stupid. She is probably victim of US education system. Poor US people they are taught so badly.

	08-06-2003 05:18									#171
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell expecting someone in a wheelchair! Someone on page 3 of this thread (or somewhere) said it was some

Why such grudge mrmitchell? Were you kicked out of school? Well I was and I didn't sue them. I think it was mistake. If I sued them I could get some attention from school inspectors and get some chance to finish it.
My crime? Simillar health problems as hers. So now I'm computer programmer expert on AI. However without certification. Why becouse Í had pay for everything full price, not just as little as shool students. Well it turned out I have to learn everything myself. No help from school no help from everyone. It of course wasn't proble that few bucks wont help. I'm from poor family, however. Of course people in this situation normaly try to get work to pay for education. (hey private schools dislike losing students so they are more sensitive to students needs). With this health problems you'd have choice work, or study. (I think It would be impossible to do both, but I never found work with reasonable time shedulle) I have a little aditional problem, If I'd work physicaly my brain would get a little lock so I'm unable do reasonable intelectual work for next few hours. Funny isn't it.

Well US has one of highest amount of lawers on population and they need some work. So don't take it so personaly. I didn't use nasty words against this troll fest either. Well not yet.

	08-06-2003 09:18									#172
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov You work your butt off in high school and have the best grades, hands-down.

Hm, we can't tell whether she worked her butts off in HS. Apparently she did not, for she had all that time for all those extracirricular activities. Besides, her grades aren't that much better than the other two kids, either.

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov But when it comes time for graduating, you're told that you won't be sole valedictorian, but a co-valedictorian. This is because, through no fault of your own, your physical disability prevented you from taking the standard physical education course. Even though you took an alternative, the school says it doesn't count.

Well if my undergrad degree had a core requirement of Bungee Jumping 101, but I took Skydiving 102 instead, and tried to sue to get graduated, is that reasonable?

Besides, how's her act fair to other kids who worked as hard as she did, and needed to take PE to boot?

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Since there was no previous history of co-valedictorians, and it has always been given to one person, it certainly would smack of discrimination and being unfairly treated due to your disability.

There had been no prior history of same-sex marriages either, before it was legalised. Are you saying that legalisation was the wrong thing to do?

	12-06-2003 13:28									#173
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not to beat a dead horse, but it looks like our little blair will be skipping her graduation ceremony.

isn't that kinda silly, since the graduation ceremony is the one place that being valedictorian will actually amount to anything?

	12-06-2003 15:43									#174
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo If this girl was a guy, I'd say to give him a good ass-kicking. Americans.

What are you angry about, at least they didn't use Canadian in place of the world girl.

	12-06-2003 21:17									#175
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quote: Originally in the Article Q Cubed just posted "... The hostile environment at the school has traumatized Blair both physically and emotionally, to the point that she cannot and will not attend the graduation ceremonies,"

Once again, what a dreadful fate this poor victim has to endure

	12-06-2003 23:47									#176
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quote: Well if my undergrad degree had a core requirement of Bungee Jumping 101, but I took Skydiving 102 instead, and tried to sue to get graduated, is that reasonable?

It would be if they said at the beginning of the year Skydiving 102 was ok to graduate, but then in the middle of the year said, no, Bungee Jumping 101 is required instead of Skydiving 102, so you won't graduate this year.

I'd think suing in that situation is VERY reasonable.

	13-06-2003 00:00									#177
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I'd be thinking....I wanna go to THAT school!

-=Vel=-

	13-06-2003 00:11									#178
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I seriously considered skipping my graduation.

	13-06-2003 00:12									#179
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I should have... soooo boring .

	13-06-2003 00:20									#180
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Graduate was scheduled same day as a national math competition I wanted to go to. If they hadn't asked me to speak at graduation, I'd have skipped it.