06-06-2003 20:23									#121
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One can only hope that the punitive damages get tossed out on their ass. IMO she'll most likely be sufficiently (maybe excessively) punished for her stupidity when she actually starts attending Harvard in the fall -- she's apparently stirred up enough ill will over there to make her freshman year rather unpleasant.

	06-06-2003 20:25									#122
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boris, i supplied links to the photos because people asked. i don't personally care what she looks like; i also don't care about her sex life, since it has no bearing on her academic performance.

the question here is whether suing to be valedictorian was worth it--and i think not, because now, no matter how noble her efforts might have been to become valedictorian, she's forever going to be known as a whiny little b1tch who wanted to have things her way, making the title even more empty than it already is.
and now, with suspicions that she might have cheated... there's no excuse for that.

	06-06-2003 22:03									#123
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Vel, why are you so mean, cruel & nasty towards that "poor, defensless, innocent" (note the quote marks here!) woman who thinks that she has been "soooo wronged!" Don't you know that this is the land of the sue happy people? After all, if someone offends you or you just feel like getting a few bucks off some hardworking person, then this is the country to do so!

(P.S. - I think that she is beeing a royal snot myself! I hope that Harvard ditches her.)

	06-06-2003 22:23									#124
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger One can only hope that the punitive damages get tossed out on their ass. IMO she'll most likely be sufficiently (maybe excessively) punished for her stupidity when she actually starts attending Harvard in the fall -- she's apparently stirred up enough ill will over there to make her freshman year rather unpleasant.

IF she goes to Harvard. I don't think her excuses over the plagiarism accusations cut it--she clearly lifted direct quotes from others and passed them off as her own writing. Her pathetic statement about not knowing the standards of the newspaper is, IMO, a lie. I wasn't valedictorian of my class, yet I knew what plagiarism was and that it was considered a bad thing.

Even if the newspaper didn't object to such plagiarism, you'd think her own intelligence and standards would then kick in. That it didn't would tell me that she's not Harvard material.

	06-06-2003 22:29									#125
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what standards? this is the kid that sued her school so that she wouldn't have to share her honors, remember?

	06-06-2003 22:39									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel what standards? this is the kid that sued her school so that she wouldn't have to share her honors, remember?

While I didn't agree with her filing the suit, I don't think that it really would be something that should pertain to her admission to a university. After all, a judge seemed to agree with her that she shouldn't have to share the position, and I see some validity in the notion that a disabled student shouldn't be denied sole valedictorianship because of a rather meaningless difference in their class roster (granted, this rendered a little less meaningful considering what her condition actually is).

That's a bit different than plagiarism, which is something everyone and their mother is taught to be very, very wrong from day one in school. Pleading ignorance is laughable on the part of a potential Harvard student.

	06-06-2003 23:01									#127
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Yep Flare...I'm such a b@stard, ain't I?

-=Vel=-

	06-06-2003 23:07									#128
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Boris: I don't see the point of having Sole Valedictorianship at all. It's not as if it says more of her achievement.

	06-06-2003 23:27									#129
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quote: Hornstine prevailed in that lawsuit. A $2.7 million lawsuit against the school district is still pending in state court for punitive damages, legal fees and costs. The lawsuits have not done much for Hornstine's popularity in the town. Her family has told police they have received death threats and their home has been vandalized.

Am I the only one who gives a to that ? I sure hope the home of this little ***** burns. Her association M.A.G.I.C, meaning "Implied in the Community" ? My Ass.

	06-06-2003 23:33									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov That's a bit different than plagiarism, which is something everyone and their mother is taught to be very, very wrong from day one in school. Pleading ignorance is laughable on the part of a potential Harvard student.

Actually, I'm in my 5th year at uni, and I just very recently discovered that plagiarism was bad (in university context - I knew it was bad outside, but I thought for some reason that it was tolerated at uni)

	06-06-2003 23:41									#131
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From JohnT's thread :

quote: "Harvard will see that this is a non-issue, and, quite frankly, something that is another example of Blair being singled out and victimized"

Gosh, how low can they get ? This ***** being singled out and victimized ? As she didn't ask for it...

	06-06-2003 23:43									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Actually, I'm in my 5th year at uni, and I just very recently discovered that plagiarism was bad (in university context - I knew it was bad outside, but I thought for some reason that it was tolerated at uni)

At the beginning of every term, in every class, my uni distributes an "Academic Integrity" sheet spelling out quite clearly what's acceptable and not. Plagiarism is at the top of the list for what's not acceptable.

	06-06-2003 23:50									#133
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Her disability cannot be confirmed?



Good money goes for her tutoring, and she takes advantage of the situation?



Be interested to hear something from the disability rights people.

	07-06-2003 00:05									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Pffff, you're a pissant in this regard compared to the likes of, say, Comrade Tribune or Tassadar.

	07-06-2003 00:05									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Boris: I don't see the point of having Sole Valedictorianship at all. It's not as if it says more of her achievement.

In a certain context, no, it doesn't say more. She should have been content to be a co-valedictorian and realize she is VERY fortunate to be going to Harvard.

However, put yourself in the position of a disabled person, perhaps not specifically her. You work your butt off in high school and have the best grades, hands-down. But when it comes time for graduating, you're told that you won't be sole valedictorian, but a co-valedictorian. This is because, through no fault of your own, your physical disability prevented you from taking the standard physical education course. Even though you took an alternative, the school says it doesn't count.

Frankly, I wouldn't blame the disabled person for being livid. Since there was no previous history of co-valedictorians, and it has always been given to one person, it certainly would smack of discrimination and being unfairly treated due to your disability. Being made to share the stage where none had to share before will also likely make many of those watching think that the disabled person is only up there because the school is throwing her a special diversity bone.

Now, the punitive suit this girl filed is an outrage. She got her way with the valedictorian issue, so her needing $2.7 million is ludicrous and a really stupid move by someone who thinks she's so smart.

	07-06-2003 00:12									#136
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quote: through no fault of your own, your physical disability prevented you from taking the standard physical education course.

Perhaps if her disability could be confirmed, you would have an effective argument.

As is, it's a whole 'nuther ballgame. The punitive suit confirms the attitude of the so-called valedictorian. Again, I am reminded of my High school, in that the valedictorian has to perform a fair amount of volunteer work while maintaining a high GPA. Weeds out the whiners.

	07-06-2003 00:19									#137
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No I wouldn't have any problem with it. Are co-Valedictorians less respected than sole ones?

	07-06-2003 00:20									#138
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quote: Originally posted by obiwan18 Perhaps if her disability could be confirmed, you would have an effective argument.

First, you'll note I was talking about a disabled person in general, in response to Az's general assertion about being valedictorian.

Second, if the school deemed the disability was enough to allow her an exemption from certain courses, such as phys ed, then what we think about it is therefore moot. If they didn't think it was valid, they shouldn't have granted the exemptions. And they certainly shouldn't have, once the exemptions were granted, backpedal come graduation and say her exeptions are going to penalize her status.

The court also seemed to think her disability was valid. Second-guessing it, out of ignorance, isn't really going to get anywhere.

	07-06-2003 00:24									#139
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She didn't even know how to plagiarize correctly then...that makes her not just greedy and selfish, but lazy too.

	07-06-2003 00:28									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel No I wouldn't have any problem with it. Are co-Valedictorians less respected than sole ones?

Again, were the situation to smack of being singled out for this kind of treatment due to your disability, I bet your attitude would change. As for being less respected, I covered that when I pointed out that many would think that, were she sharing the stage, that it maybe she didn't really deserve the honor, but was being given it due to her disability. I can't help but think that if a school told me I had to share an honor, whereas others before didn't, because of a physical disability, I'd be pretty peeved, no matter how significant the honor was.

If you're going to have a standard of co-valedictorians, fine. But to suddenly do it when a disabled student is concerned seems unfair to me. If they were going to exempt her from taking courses, then IMO they have to waive those courses when considering the valedictorianism.

	07-06-2003 00:28									#141
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What really bothers me, is that it seems she is the one starting all of this ****. Her father seems like an important guy and I doubt he'd really want to do all this on his own. That ***** is probably just whining her ****ing ass off to get her way. I'm still rather pissed of at that damn father though, as he should be able to ****ing stand up to her and stop that shitty insanity she has started

	07-06-2003 01:19									#142
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(1) The girl's disease is bullshit
(2) The girl's claim for Valedictorian is bullshit
(3) The girl's $2.5mil is bullshit
(4) The girl's essays are bullshit
(5) This girl is full of bullshit.

	07-06-2003 01:32									#143
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So....tell us how you *really* feel, Mr. Mitchell....

-=Vel=-

	07-06-2003 01:36									#144
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quote: Again, were the situation to smack of being singled out for this kind of treatment due to your disability, I bet your attitude would change.

I agree. The main bad spot for the school system was it changed its validictorian preference when it was clear that the disabled woman was going to win. It was really ****ing obvious and pretty dumb. I'm sure she felt that it was just so she wouldn't win (ie, basically a one time deal).

	07-06-2003 01:38									#145
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Whut do you mean? If you're asking for my reasons for my opinions, then they're the same reasons that other people in the thread have had, and I felt it unnecessary to repeat them.

As for my last post, that really is whut I think--this girl (and probably her parents) have a mental disease called Being An *******. This is a difficult thing to cope with, I know, and I hope she gets the appropriate medical attention.

	07-06-2003 01:43									#146
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Just messin' with you, Mr. Mitchell.

And Imran/others: I *would* agree, but....

It does a LOT to destroy her credibility when it comes out later that she blatantly plagarized (and I read the comparisons, you don't get any more blatant than that) not once, not twice, but on three different occassions!

Her excuse? "Oh, what do I know? I'm just a seventeen year old kid."

Yeah. A seventeen year old kid who obviously knew enough to latch on to a potential 2.5 million dollar gravy train when she saw it.

I'm not buying it.

And three separate instances of plagarism outside of school is *more* than an ample trend to make her scholastic achievements suspect as well.

-=Vel=-

	07-06-2003 01:54									#147
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quote: It does a LOT to destroy her credibility when it comes out later that she blatantly plagarized

Duh... but not to destroy her credibility that she probably deserved to be sole validictorian. Unless there is proof she did so in school work, it doesn't matter here. It DOES matter for Harvard though.

	07-06-2003 02:00									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: It does a LOT to destroy her credibility when it comes out later that she blatantly plagarized Duh... but not to destroy her credibility that she probably deserved to be sole validictorian. Unless there is proof she did so in school work, it doesn't matter here. It DOES matter for Harvard though.

Absolutely. Her plagiarism and lawsuit is a separate issue from the valedictorian one.

I agree that the girl deserved to be sole valedictorian. That's about all I agree with her on, as I've stated. Her lawsuit is wrong, her plagiarism is wrong, her excuses for it are lame and I sincerely hope Harvard rescinds its acceptance.

	07-06-2003 02:12									#149
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Hate to break it to "all'ya'll" but *none* of it matters here. I'm seriously doubting that anybody is hanging onto the edge of their seats to find out what we, the folk of 'poly think about the case under discussion.

And from my perspective, the plagarism *does* have weight and bearing on her status as sole valedictorian.

Imagine Imran and Boris going to a track meet and running a race. Imran wins by a shoelace and gets the medal, and a couple months later, it comes out that he gets busted for steroid use.

Of course, he's quick to say that he "wasn't using them when he was running the race," and we're all s'posed to just take him at his word?

Plagarism (especially three separate instances of it) makes ALL her academic achievement suspect.

-=Vel=-

	07-06-2003 03:42									#150
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Unless they can prove the girl plagiarized on her schoolwork, it has NO bearing on her valedictorian standing, case closed. Committing one wrongdoing doesn't not infer the committing of others, thankfully. I'd hate to see the kind of justice system we would have if that were the case!

I would find it very disturbing if a school were to base its awarding of honors on supposition rather than facts. Would you like a court to behave in the same way?