16-05-2003 10:20									#91
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For diplomacy, all they really have to add are more options to throw around and use.


I don't think you can set up a battle with an ally to attack certain parts of the land, certain cities, units.

There's no World War feature within games. So, if all countries are at war with someone, the game could go into a state of 'world war' and that gets recorded, and if it happens again, it becomes 'world war 2', and so on.

Having all these new civs, etc, is OK, but the game is linear, civ is not meant to be linear. Adding new stuff doesn't fix that problem, Firaxis should be adding in features that lead your countries and other countries onto different paths, constantly.

What about a race to find new land, like Columbus? There's no 'race' sort of feature. Or what about a 'nuke race' or where your nation splits because a large % of your ppl have other ideas. (like the indepence war). these things just aren't strong enough in the game.

	16-05-2003 11:44									#92
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AND THE GOOD OLD CIVIL WAR

cheers

	16-05-2003 11:46									#93
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I want back to Nation split when you take the capital.

	16-05-2003 12:07									#94
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I am all for any XP that will keep me playing as long as it is reasonably priced I do believe UberKrux & Snoopy bring up some vaild points though.

	16-05-2003 14:13									#95
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I won't buy an XP for a couple of new civs. Unless they introduce new traits (attention: balance!), they will be almost (short of UUs) exact copies of other civs anyway. Same for units or buildings. Neither will I buy one for a bunch of scenarios, which I won't play anyway. PtW came out with the word Multiplayer on the box. It still doesn't work, not even PBEM. I won't shell out money for more sheer eye candy.

I would consider to buy it, if it has

- a really working Multiplayer. I mean, without half of the PBEM games crashing after months invested, and with a valid and working option to play over internet with more than 2 players and without game caused lag, crashes and dropouts.

- more diplomatic options, like the mentioned fixed alliances, a fixed UN (what's it now? a bribing contest, not more), one-sided RoP after wars ("occupation") and others. There are plenty of ideas on the boards.

- an improved combat system, and real ZoC, at least as a choosable option! If the AI can't handle it, teach it and don't take any tactical choice out of the game for the sake of a good AI! AI's suck anyway, even the best one's, when it comes to MP. It would also be good to give an option to limit the RR movement per turn, to force the players to place their forces wisely.

- a vastly improved scenario editor with events, and a scripting language, dammit.

- the guarantee, that all patches are available at the same time for all versions (by this I mean, with 4 weeks or less to wait for localized versions), for the sake of MP! Yes, I mean Atarigreed with that!

Unless a majority of these points is met, Firaxis/Atarigreed can stick this XP where the sun doesn't shine. Sorry to sound harsh, but I'm still angry about the MP failure named PtW.

	16-05-2003 14:19									#96
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8 more civs =

8 scenarios =

I'm hope there is a lot of stuff they're not telling us, and until they tell us more I'll remain completely unexcited about this. The current announcement is a big snooze-a-thon.

To be honest I'm almost happy with the game as it stands. The ONLY two things I would like are:
1) MP that works much better in real-time and no game-breaking PBEM bugs!!!
2) Lots of Diplomacy and Event options in the editor (a minor "w00t" about the diplo announcement here, I suppose).

Like Sir Ralph, I'll only be interested in the 8 new civs if they add a new (balanced! .. or at least moddable) trait or two.

	16-05-2003 14:58									#97
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Hey, I'm happy with it.
But one thing: worldwide copy protection system.
Let's all e-mail Firaxis and Atari with this.

	16-05-2003 17:26									#98
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I have just seen the news. I am delighted !

If there are scenarios, that must mean there will be codable events (I doubt there will be a scripting language, but an event editor has to be in). And codable events is the big thing that I want.

They say there are new diplomatic options. The only one mentioned is the "locked alliance". Probably good for scenarios, but will there be unit trading, at last ?
Should the scenario abilities only be half-good, Unit-trading might be a deciding factor for me to buy the game or not....

	16-05-2003 17:45									#99
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I too think Conquests won't be dependant of PtW, because it would hurt the sales (I've heard there are about 4 times less sells for PtW than for Civ3, they won't want to aim at a part of this 25%, but they'll rather aim for the broades audience)

However, PtW features such as PtW units, victory conditions, Civs etc. are most likely not to figure in a vanilla Civ3 + Conquests combo. I wonder if Conquests will have multiplayer by itself or not though.

	16-05-2003 17:45									#100
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Oh, and the Khmers, the Javanese and the Mali are a must too

	16-05-2003 19:04									#101
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This sounds like something they promised would be in PTW. I think the expansion packs are very weak.

	16-05-2003 19:05									#102
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And Now, A Rant

The "Islamic Sultunate" better NOT be fundamentalism with a new, bigoted name. Are there Islamic fundamentalists in this world? Yes. Are there equally loony Christians, Jews, Hindus and even Bhuddists? Absolutely. It would sicken me to learn that Firaxis/Atari is profiting off of the anti-Islamic wave of igorance currently sweeping America.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to play a game of Civ with an "evil" government other than communism (which maybe they'll have the foresight to rename "Totalitarianism" someday...). I just hope that I can play as not only an evil-Osama-type leader, but as a wicked Klansman, a rabid Sharon-type nationalist, etc.

Evil is not limited to Islam alone!

Fin

	16-05-2003 19:18									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Probably good for scenarios, but will there be unit trading, at last ? Should the scenario abilities only be half-good, Unit-trading might be a deciding factor for me to buy the game or not....

Just making sure I have this right.

You want unit trading, right?

As for this "Islamic Sultantate" nonsense, I certainly hope this isn't a form of government. What next? Maybe an Inquisition building that allows pop rushing with local Jews? Klan meeting halls to quell unrest and assure that the tobacco gets harvested?

	16-05-2003 19:24									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor However, PtW features such as PtW units, victory conditions, Civs etc. are most likely not to figure in a vanilla Civ3 + Conquests combo. I wonder if Conquests will have multiplayer by itself or not though.

Their web site says it will have "enhanced" multiplayer features. Does this finally mean MP will actually work how it should? Why do I feel like they are milking me of all my cash?

I think I'll wait to get the XP this time so I won't be as pissed as I was with PTW when I find out it is buggy as all hell.

	16-05-2003 19:29									#105
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar As for this "Islamic Sultantate" nonsense, I certainly hope this isn't a form of government. What next? Maybe an Inquisition building that allows pop rushing with local Jews? Klan meeting halls to quell unrest and assure that the tobacco gets harvested?

Maybe there'll be a "CNN" small wonder that, in conjunction with the "Barely Challenged Completely Fraudulent Election" small wonder, makes your entire population content no matter what you do...

	16-05-2003 19:38									#106
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Yahweh Sabaoth

I hope it isn't Fundamentalism (I hope they have it, but don't call it islamic)

	16-05-2003 19:44									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV I hope it isn't Fundamentalism (I hope they have it, but don't call it islamic)

Fundamentalism, as rockin' as it was, made Civ2 WAY TOO EASY. Simply build up, get a lead, switch and conquer the damn world! Techs every 4-6 turns by the end of the game, and buy every last city. Way too easy.

Now that propaganda/espionage works differently, I could maybe see Fundamentalism re-introduced... but tithing would have to be WAY cut back, cultural assimilation should be made more difficult (to reflect vigorous resistance against lunatic marches, as opposed to compliance with rational conquerors).

I would like to see globalization worked into the XP... I just hope the other 4 civs are not ancient as well, or if they are, please include the Israelis...?

	16-05-2003 19:47									#108
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Hey, first word that this game is as stupid as I expect it to be, everyone should boycott it.

It would be their 3rd time in a row, it would be very pathetic and shamefull of them; and such a company should not be allowed to produce such trash and say it's good ever again.

	16-05-2003 19:50									#109
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

However, they're in a good position, they could make a grand come-back. They could impress more than 50% of their market this time around. And if doing so could redeem themselves in such a way that their market will most likely forgive them.


I find this a really interesting point. Here we are, giving Firaxis one last chance to prove their worth in the games industry, if they fail at this, I really don't believe they will last much longer than an egg in a microwave (Zak McKracken ).

	16-05-2003 19:54									#110
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Oh and Firaxis: Don't think I am TRYING to help you make a good game for MY benefits, because I really don't care for civ anymore.


Now, my thoughts have changed, I prefer the way RoN is heading. Not because it's more 'TBS's are dead and RTS's are in' but because in order to make civ deeper, you have to change the way it works.

	16-05-2003 19:58									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Willem I came across this over at Civ Fanatics: Expansion announcement

hi ,

who - ah

rumour control was right

this is great news

have a nice day

	16-05-2003 20:35									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Fundamentalism, as rockin' as it was, made Civ2 WAY TOO EASY. Simply build up, get a lead, switch and conquer the damn world! Techs every 4-6 turns by the end of the game, and buy every last city. Way too easy. Now that propaganda/espionage works differently, I could maybe see Fundamentalism re-introduced... but tithing would have to be WAY cut back, cultural assimilation should be made more difficult (to reflect vigorous resistance against lunatic marches, as opposed to compliance with rational conquerors). I would like to see globalization worked into the XP... I just hope the other 4 civs are not ancient as well, or if they are, please include the Israelis...?

I agree

It would be great if all scientific improvements (including GL) didn't work.

	16-05-2003 20:41									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I too think Conquests won't be dependant of PtW, because it would hurt the sales (I've heard there are about 4 times less sells for PtW than for Civ3, they won't want to aim at a part of this 25%, but they'll rather aim for the broades audience) However, PtW features such as PtW units, victory conditions, Civs etc. are most likely not to figure in a vanilla Civ3 + Conquests combo. I wonder if Conquests will have multiplayer by itself or not though.

I hope you're right.

Okay, let's assume that is true, and this XP is based upon vanilla Civ III, and is entirely independent of PtW. It still brings forth the obvious question: when they are talking about 8 new civs, are they talking about 8 new civs in addition to extra civs added to the PtW or are they saying 8 new civs added to the vanilla Civ III?

It is entirely possible that since the XP (we're assuming) expands the vanilla version, and Marketing language is based upon expansion of the vanilla version, that the latter could be true. I hope not.

edited for clarity

	16-05-2003 20:50									#114
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Just wait and see. It'll be loads of fun.

	16-05-2003 20:53									#115
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quote: Originally posted by TheArsenal It is entirely possible that since the XP (we're assuming) expands the vanilla version, and Marketing language is based upon expansion of the vanilla version, that the latter could be true. I hope not.

Wait... does this mean that Conquests might not work with PTW? I gave away my vanilla Civ CD! If the two don't work together, I am going on a rampage.

	16-05-2003 21:02									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Wait... does this mean that Conquests might not work with PTW? I gave away my vanilla Civ CD! If the two don't work together, I am going on a rampage.

Well, I doubt you'll be the only one.

	16-05-2003 21:27									#117
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quote: [SIZE=1] Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth Wait... does this mean that Conquests might not work with PTW? I gave away my vanilla Civ CD! If the two don't work together, I am going on a rampage.

Not sure what you're saying. I have Civ III on my computer, but don't need my vanilla CD for PtW. And didn't need it to install it. I would think Conquests would be the same.

	16-05-2003 21:27									#118
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quote: Does Civilization III: Conquests include improved editor support? Yes, Civilization III: Conquests ships with an improved version of the editor that will allow you to greatly customize your Civ experience in ways never seen before in any other Civilization game. The improved editor not only allows you to alter game elements such as advances, civilizations, units and wonders (to name a few), but also includes a robust map editor.

From the FAQ- Don't we have all that right now?

	16-05-2003 21:28									#119
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The two will obviously work together. Even the worst cretins at Atagreed wouldn't be stupid enough to alienate the biggest fan of the product.

The only compatibility issue that there is a risk you experience, Yawheh, is that Conquest might demand Civ3's CD during the install. I don't remember if PtW did so during its install. I'd advise you to burn a Civ3 CD, if only to be able to reinstall it (I mean, as a private copy of your data).

	16-05-2003 21:35									#120
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Here's how I think it'll work

If you have PTW, you can use conquests w/ PTW features

If not, you only get vanilla features and conquest features (you don't get the 8 PTW civs, multiplayet, med. inf, etc)