16-05-2003 02:11									#31
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EIFFEL TOWER! I really miss it.

cheers

	16-05-2003 02:25									#32
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Isn't the Statue of Zeus sort of a pre-feudalism Sun Tzu's? That's what the PR made it sound like...

	16-05-2003 02:41									#33
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Thinking more about it, scrap the Panama Canal. I want more worker actions. We should have the workers able to build (at least) canals, underwater tunnels (like the Chunnel) and be able to dry out new land in limited circumstances (say, dry out a coastal sea tile which is surrounded by six land squares.) These would take a heap of time, of course, unless you use many many workers. My "North Sea Protection Works" wonders is related to this, as the North Sea Protection Works are what keeps a goodly portion of Netherlands from going under the sea - this wonder could shorten the time it takes to dig out new land.

Statue of Liberty needs to be in, though I'm not sure of the effect. Maybe it could increase population growth (symbolizes immigration)?
Also, I imagine Stonehenge working something like Weather Paradigm in SMAC - it makes workers work faster. (I'm not sure how much faster, though - it could be a killer with Industrial civ)

	16-05-2003 03:17									#34
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I love the idea of some sort of small wonder acadamies for naval and air force units. Building the Naval Acadamy allows you to create carrier battle groups, the air force academy is necessary for precision bombing.

I really like the idea of the "North Sea Protection Works" as a small wonder that allows you to terraform land, build canals, underwater tunnels, and bridges.

Statue of Liberty needs to be back in, I like the idea of giving it the effect of reducing the amount of anarchy during a revolution.

What about the Colisseum of Rome - Give a Colosseum in every city, although that might be a bit powerful on top of other happiness wonders.

	16-05-2003 04:44									#35
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You might want to bet on the new wonders: here.

	16-05-2003 06:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV What do you think Zeus does? I know he makes you have a stronger military, but how (We already have Sun Tzu and the Great Wall)

Hmm...maybe it reduces maintenance costs/increases # of free supported units?

	16-05-2003 06:18									#37
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I assumed it gave your units +1 attack or something like that.

	16-05-2003 15:27									#38
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would be nice to have the rushed & sh*tty present UN removed and something worthwhile ( ala SMAC ) replacing it.

if they can actually make this XP have meaningful things in it that improve the game and not just cosmetic things ( like new Civs/units ) then I might actually buy it. might

	16-05-2003 18:40									#39
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I think the statue of Zeus will increase the number of hitpoints for that civ's units eg. super-elite with 6 hp

	16-05-2003 19:23									#40
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goody ...
Tobacco becomes a luxury good.
This would give the "cure for cancer" great wonder surely a reason for existance

	17-05-2003 03:11									#41
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis goody ... Tobacco becomes a luxury good. This would give the "cure for cancer" great wonder surely a reason for existance

cheers

	17-05-2003 04:03									#42
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider I assumed it gave your units +1 attack or something like that.

+1 to attack might be a gamebreaker coming in the ancient age.

	17-05-2003 04:17									#43
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If the Khmers are in (which I sure hope), I'd suppose Angkor Wat will be in, and will have the same traits as the Khmers. I don't know what it'll be. Maybe some corruption-fighting facility, or something related to government (like easier government-switch)

	18-05-2003 05:18									#44
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New great wonder “El Consejo de Indias”: Reduces the corruption in the cities of your civilization in the continent that does not have the Palace.


Leader naval: They would have the same options that the terrestrial ones, that is to say, could finish a wonder or form a Navy. When discovering Navigation and having an active Navy would unblock the small wonder “Naval academy” that would serve to create Navies. The Navies serian in the sea the equivalent thing to the earth armies.

	18-05-2003 05:54									#45
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Someone said that the seven ancient wonders set will be complete with the new XP.

Call me a pedant, but weren't the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World

1) The Pyramids of Gizeh (in the game)
2) The Hanging Gardens of Babylon (in the game)
3) The Tomb of King Mausolus at Halicarnassus (not in the game)
4) The Colossus of Rhodes (in the game)
5) The Pharos of Alexandria (in the game)
6) The Statute of Zeus at Olympia (apparently going to be in the game)
7) The Temple of Diana at Ephesus

The Great Library was not one of the seven ancient wonders of the world.

	18-05-2003 08:43									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Yeah, I don't want to watch the AI endlessly patrol its units around (you should be able to toggle your GlobeSat on or off).

That's a good addition to the idea. But this should definently be a small wonder in the game.

quote: Some sort of Media wonder that reduces war weariness in republics & democracies some more (Fox News?)

Sad but true.

	18-05-2003 11:44									#47
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Most commonly accepted list today:

http://ce.eng.usf.edu/pharos/wonders/list.html

Not everyone agreed with the same seven Wonders:


http://www.unmuseum.org/wonders.htm

quote: Ancient Greeks loved to compile lists of the marvelous structures in their world. Though we think of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World as a single list today, there were actually a number of lists compiled by different Greek writers. Antipater of Sidon, and Philon of Byzantium, drew up two of the most well-known lists. Many of the lists agreed on six of the seven items. The final place on some lists was awarded to the Walls of the City of Babylon. On others, the Palace of Cyrus, king of Persia took the seventh position. Finally, toward the 6th century A.D., the final item became the Lighthouse at Alexandria.

Maybe they will add the remaining Seven Wonders in this XP. They may also add some of the other Wonders of the World that currently aren't in the game.

The problem with adding new things is that the city view is crowded already. I realize that not all cities would have a complete set of all improvements and Wonders.

	18-05-2003 22:08									#48
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quote: Some sort of Media wonder that reduces war weariness in republics & democracies some more (Fox News?)

Did you hear the Jessica Lynch rescue was staged by the marines - those Iraqi 'soldiers' they beat up in the video were apparently the very doctors who were caring for her!

	18-05-2003 23:16									#49
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Since disasters will be a feature in Conquests, I propose the following small wonders: Seismological Institute (reduces earthquake damage), or National Weather Service (reduces damage from floods, hurricanes, blizzards, etc.). The Seismological Institute should be buildable only in cities with, say, >5 hill/mountain squares within its radius.

	19-05-2003 01:33									#50
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With the Mayans and the Incas in the game, we'll probably see some of their stuff:

Chichen Itza: bunch o' step pyramids in the Yucatan?

Sun Stone: that thing they won't let you see at Machu Pichu (unless you really strain to catch a glimpse from the ledge above)?

The Inca Trail: brings fish to your mountain cities?

That other thing in Machu Pichu that was badly damaged during a Cuzquena Beer commercial? (Given Firaxis's rep for historical research, this is probably exactly what they will call it).

	19-05-2003 05:08									#51
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i'd like something like "national guard" which would reduce a units maint by 1.

Something that would allow you to use an enemies roads at full speed.

	19-05-2003 05:42									#52
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Small Wonder

Hollywood.

	19-05-2003 09:51									#53
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 i'd like something like "national guard" which would reduce a units maint by 1.

Don't all units under every governement only cost 1?

	19-05-2003 12:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by ALPHA WOLF 64 Something that would allow you to use an enemies roads at full speed.

extremely overpowered

cheers

	19-05-2003 18:37									#55
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A couple more ideas...

"Nelson's Statue" - 10% naval combat bonus (available with Magnetism?)

Bring back ET (heh) - every 20 turns, +1 to AI attitude Available with Steel? It would also probably be best to give it the lowest possible AI build priority, since it would be mostly worthless to an AI civ.

...

I think Quasar1011 is on the right track with a wonder or wonders to reduce/eliminate the ill effects of natural disasters.

-Arrian

	19-05-2003 20:21									#56
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Statue of Liberty: has a percentage chance every turn of stealing one or more points of population from other civs and giving them to one of your cities. The civ loosing the poplutation cannot be at war with your civ, and must have a smaller economy. The population added to your city retains its nationality. The chance of stealing population goes up in relation to the unhappiness of the civ to be stolen from.

	19-05-2003 21:16									#57
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wrylachlan, your Statue of LIberty effect is an original idea and sounds pretty neat. I like it!

Reducing unit maintence by one just means free units, which would be hugely powerful... what if there is a wonder that pays 20% of your military's upkeep? Same idea, less overwhelming.

	19-05-2003 21:24									#58
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quote: Originally posted by wrylachlan Statue of Liberty: has a percentage chance every turn of stealing one or more points of population from other civs and giving them to one of your cities. The civ loosing the poplutation cannot be at war with your civ, and must have a smaller economy. The population added to your city retains its nationality. The chance of stealing population goes up in relation to the unhappiness of the civ to be stolen from.

That is a pretty good idea! Although for Civ4 there should be some sort of migration model ...

	19-05-2003 21:58									#59
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I also like wrylachlan's idea. I'd like to make it a game concept in itself - this kind of migration would be possible even without SoL. I'd like to make it related to the culture - people move from the state with smaller culture to the state with bigger culture. SoL would, naturally, increase the rate of immigration.

	19-05-2003 22:26									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu I also like wrylachlan's idea. I'd like to make it a game concept in itself - this kind of migration would be possible even without SoL. I'd like to make it related to the culture - people move from the state with smaller culture to the state with bigger culture. SoL would, naturally, increase the rate of immigration.

Of course, then we'll need to build Border Patrol small wonders to stem the tide if we build too many temples.