15-05-2003 20:22									#1
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According to press release, there will be new wonders, and one of them will be Statue of Zeus. What do you think the others will be?

If I could hazard a guess, I'd guess there will be 8 new major wonders (8 new scens, 8 new civs - makes sense). I'd say they should be, in addition to the Statue of Zeus:

Stonehenge
Hagia Sophia
Taj Mahal
Panama Canal
Mount Rushmore
North Sea Protection Works
Human Genome Project

	15-05-2003 20:45									#2
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Hmm...

I'm thinking there are a lot of Wonders already... it's gonna get a bit cluttered.

What would you have your Wonders do, Stefu?

-Arrian

	15-05-2003 20:49									#3
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Well, the statue of Zeus was one of the original 7 wonders of the ancient world, so it will be good to see that set finally complete

-Jam

	15-05-2003 20:53									#4
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Maybe adding more "1 city" wonders would be good. We already have some very powerful "continent-wide" and "empire-wide" wonders.

Make 'em fairly cheap, but either relegated to 1 city or have a relatively short shelf-life.

-Arrian

	15-05-2003 20:58									#5
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Of your list, Panama Canal and Genome Project sound good to me. The Panama Canal could have some commerce affect on all cities on the same continent, and the Genome Project similiar to Theory of Evolution. Most of the others sound like tourist types, so maybe similiar to Colussus.

	15-05-2003 21:26									#6
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quote: Originally posted by War of Art Well, the statue of Zeus was one of the original 7 wonders of the ancient world, so it will be good to see that set finally complete -Jam

Don't forget the Masoleum - which hasn't been in any Civs or CtPs. Besides, we already have a damn statute - the Collosus.

Loooking further down the press release...

Tobacco is a resource!? Tobacco!? Aren't we in an age where government and media are supposed to be discouraging smoking? I can see it now, Hiawatha says to Lincoln "Stop the war and we'll give you cancer for 20 turns." Couldn't we at have weed instead?

And if the Inca are in, what about coca? Let's all tweak Ashcroft.

	15-05-2003 21:38									#7
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Tobacco is probably a luxury resource (same with Jade and exotic birds)

	15-05-2003 21:44									#8
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar And if the Inca are in, what about coca? Let's all tweak Ashcroft.

Tweak Ashcroft?? Now THAT's the kind of editor I want!

	15-05-2003 21:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV Tobacco is probably a luxury resource (same with Jade and exotic birds)

Of course (can't build anything with it). Anyway, I started a new thread on this here. I don't want to jack this thread.

	15-05-2003 21:48									#10
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exotic birds can work as slave laborers that power large military machines

	15-05-2003 22:28									#11
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OK, in an effort to put this thread back on track ...

A small wonder I'd like to see is something like the "globesat" from CtP. A satellite network, like the US's, that allows the civilization to observe troop movements, or maybe cuts the cost/risk of stealing enemy plans.

Even better than adding new wonders however, would be redoing the UN - and the diplomatic victory in general.

	15-05-2003 22:33									#12
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quote: Even better than adding new wonders however, would be redoing the UN - and the diplomatic victory in general.

Quoting Jeff Briggs:

quote: “Our game ‘Civilization’ always had what we called a United Nations component to it,” said Briggs. “And if you achieved the consensus of the other countries you could achieve a diplomatic victory.” But real world events has Briggs thinking about updating the Civilization series. Among the features: An increased role for the media and a more true-to-life world governing body. In this more realistic setting “Civilization’s” United Nations component would be less kumbaya, more realpolitik. More powerful members would have the power to veto or go off and wage unilateral action. “If Iraq has told us anything about modern warfare, it’s that it is as much a war of words as a clash of arms. It makes for interesting game decisions.” said Briggs.

They may redo the UN :Praying:

	15-05-2003 22:50									#13
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new wonders:

Legoland
Dollywood

	15-05-2003 23:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by brianshapiro new wonders: Legoland

Legoland is not a wonder of the world. Not yet.

for those that do not follow the PtWDG demogame: Legoland is one of the teams there.

	15-05-2003 23:13									#15
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quote: Originally posted by The Templar A small wonder I'd like to see is something like the "globesat" from CtP. A satellite network, like the US's, that allows the civilization to observe troop movements, or maybe cuts the cost/risk of stealing enemy plans.

I like that wonder too. But it would have to be tweaked. But IIRC what the AI did most of the time in that game when it wasn't attacking was move units around in circles - as Units in Civ III sometimes do. So I was forced to watch every unit in every civ do little laps. And on huge maps it was so jumpy going back and forth, I wasn't always sure what part of the world I was watching.

I would like to see a wonder that gives the building civ the ability to switch governments with one-turn anarchy as though they were religious.

	15-05-2003 23:21									#16
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Yeah, I don't want to watch the AI endlessly patrol its units around (you should be able to toggle your GlobeSat on or off).

I really do hope the redo the UN. And I think it should be possible to reject a diplomatic victory by another civ & then have to fight the rest of the world (ala MOO2).

What about a SOSUS sonar net that allows you to see other civs' Subs?

Some sort of Media wonder that reduces war weariness in republics & democracies some more (Fox News?) Then again, with Police Stations + Univ Suff + a new wonder, you would effectively circumvent WW.

-Arrian

	15-05-2003 23:29									#17
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Oh great, this means I'm going to have to do redo my mod all over again!

	15-05-2003 23:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Then again, with Police Stations + Univ Suff + a new wonder, you would effectively circumvent WW.

Not really, there's still a time factor so you'd just be delaying it a bit longer.

	15-05-2003 23:34									#19
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I hope they add enough stuff to make you want to redo it.

What do you think Zeus does?

I know he makes you have a stronger military, but how (We already have Sun Tzu and the Great Wall)

	15-05-2003 23:38									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Louis XXIV I hope they add enough stuff to make you want to redo it.

It sounds like that won't be an issue. They really emphasized the new abilties that will be available in the editor.

	15-05-2003 23:57									#21
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quote: Some sort of Media wonder that reduces war weariness in republics & democracies some more (Fox News?)

"I liked Fox News' coverage of the Iraq War best. They were totally unbiased and 100% behind our troops." - paraphrase from The Onion. :D

I'd assume a GlobeSat wonder would just update your military advisor with troop intel every turn.

New small wonder: Mulberry Bridges
Available with Amphibious Warfare, allows units unloading from ships to treat any square as a city port.

IMO, this would be vital for a decent WWII mod, unless they *gasp* redo railroads.

	16-05-2003 01:39									#22
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It would be great with a wonder that has no effect that you build only for the huge amount of culture it produces.

Think about it, I'm serious.

cheers

	16-05-2003 01:45									#23
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We already have one: Shakespeare's Theather.

Think about it, I'm serious.

	16-05-2003 01:47									#24
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How much culture per turn? It should probably depend on when in the game the wonder is available. If it's ancient, 6-8/turn is the most I could imagine without it being too much (12-16/turn once it doubles). Medieval could be 10-14/turn. Less chance of doubling. Industrial could be 20/turn. Not much point in a Modern Culture-only wonder, but if so, more like 40/turn.

-Arrian

	16-05-2003 01:47									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius We already have one: Shakespeare's Theather. Think about it, I'm serious.

It has an effect. I'm serious.

cheers

	16-05-2003 01:49									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian How much culture per turn? It should probably depend on when in the game the wonder is available. If it's ancient, 6-8/turn is the most I could imagine without it being too much (12-16/turn once it doubles). Medieval could be 10-14/turn. Less chance of doubling. Industrial could be 20/turn. Not much point in a Modern Culture-only wonder, but if so, more like 40/turn. -Arrian

Maybe the Beatles... Available with radio. 25 culture/turn.

cheers

	16-05-2003 01:52									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Yeah, I don't want to watch the AI endlessly patrol its units around (you should be able to toggle your GlobeSat on or off).

Mmmm, that's a point. GlobeSat in C:CtP could really expand out that enemy move period. Perhaps they should be visible without showing movements. At any rate, I hope we get something that mimics satellite surveilance.

And Fox News is not a wonder so much as a copy of a wonder in the way the Statue of Liberty is a copy of the collosus. Fox News was invented by the Soviet Union, only they called it 'Pravda'. And if Fox News were a print medium it would be used by most in the same way Pravda was ...

	16-05-2003 01:55									#28
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quote: Originally posted by statusperfect It has an effect. I'm serious. cheers

Sure, like anyone ever builds it for its effect

Anyway, I wasn't being that serious. If you're thinking of a wonder that would give the amount of culture Arrian is talking about, then it's be a good idea.

	16-05-2003 02:07									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Sure, like anyone ever builds it for its effect Anyway, I wasn't being that serious. If you're thinking of a wonder that would give the amount of culture Arrian is talking about, then it's be a good idea.

then you can catch up in culture in the modern era.

cheers

	16-05-2003 02:09									#30
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*Locked Diplomacy
*Natural Disasters
*New Resources
* More CIV's, units and wonders.
*A realistic version of the UN



Sounds like the definitive game of CIV that CIV 3 was destined to be.

As for the wonders (wish list)

GPS (allows one spy request per turn for free)
Panama Canal (allows one tile canals to be built w/ a worker sacrifice)
Stonehenge (temples at half price to any city on the continent, expires with Theology)
Statue of Liberty (allows free transition between gov's)
Statue of Zeus (ok, its in the game, had to include it)

Naval Academy (increased promotion rates to all ships, allows lethal bombardment to ships that have bombardment capability) Small wonder)

Airforce Academy (w/ advanced flight, increases promotion rates to aircraft, allows lethal bombardment to all planes that can bombard, must be built in order to allow precision strikes, small wonder