17-05-2003 05:58									#1
	What about a minigame set for a FEUDAL WAR!!! ? Get a bigger avatar today!

Hello all,
I had this idea during a chat today with Togas, E_T1, Aidun and BigFree (and, of course, me). We would make a minigame of Spain with the topic on Feuds developing and eventualy killing each other for total political supremacy (ok, armies at MAdrid is not a ´´political´´ thing, but anyway...)
Togas is going to provide me with the copy of Spain´s map,I´ll do the city placing and modding... so here we are.. if this gets to work then i´ll post a more definitive thread or such, but untill then, Gimme all your Ideas and toughts and hints and little charms made of Snakeskin and leather...
and please , no ´´Give my feud some Siphahi! I have just hired them fromold luxia!´´, wait, we could put some mercenaries indeed...

ADDED! Feel free to modify or edit this post!

The Factions:

The Togas Clan
Ind + Rel
Royal Blue (Persian)
UU: Heavy Warhorse 5/3/2 (replace knights)

The Dejon Clan
Mil + Com
Dark Red (Rust)
UU: Chargers 4/2/2 (replace mid inf)

The Calamari Clan
Rel + Com
color
UU

The Maser Clan
Exp + Mil
not pink
UU: Warbringer 1/4/1 pikeman replacement

The Libre Clan
Mil + Ind
Black
UU: Berserker 6/2/1 amph (replaces longbowman)

The Winterus Clan
traits
color
UU

The Mitchell Clan
Ind + Sci
not pink
UU: Minstrel Dudes 2/1/3 (replaces archers)

The Church (Aidun)
Rel + Sci
White or Yellow
UU: Swiss Guard 1/4/1 (replaces pikemen)

Last edited by ruby_maser on 28-05-2003 at 21:43

	17-05-2003 14:29									#2
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I am willing to join the game, but I recently updated my PTW to 1.21 f and it couldn't recognise the CD anymore. I don't know what causes this problem, but one thing is clear: I can't play any game above version 1.01 f.
The patch I installed was the American patch I downloaded from www.civ3.com.


Nuclear Winter,

Make sure there are enough resources so that we needn't to kill a few players before the middle ages and we can trade a lot.

Another thing is that I would like to play it in DyP, but that depends on what the others want.

Aidun

	18-05-2003 02:12									#3
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I sent Nuc a map of Spain that I made. I think it might be fun to expand that map to include land outside of Spain for us to conquer, but the goal would be to "unite" all of the Spainish factions into one nation and be the King of Spain.

Start the game off in the middle ages and use a Mod like DyP to have an extended game in the middle ages.

The question becomes ... what would the factions be? Perhaps it depends on how many people are interested in playing the game

--Togas

	18-05-2003 03:12									#4
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Yes Indeed, I need a list of people.
Also, I will need to draw the territory of each dukedom so that the owner can choose to replace the city in the begining (but inside the perimiter of the Dukedom!!!). I will mod the map acordingly and I am considering doing some extra modifications for the factions, as well as unit changings... and, of course, I´d need speacial rules for diplomacy and Trade. This means any idea is highly required.
Nuclear Winter

	18-05-2003 17:43									#5
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I think the map should be enlarged and some small towns should be added so the duchies have more than one city.

	18-05-2003 17:50									#6
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This sounds like fun.

Include a Dejon family warmongering clan please.

	18-05-2003 20:38									#7
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Positive!
In fact each Duke will have a province (if it goes like I mean it to, that is).
I will try to develop a questionary for all to answer regarding the Provinces , soa s to decide some special factors, UU and such...
Have a nice day, and keep showing interest (or else the project may come to an abrupt end ...

	18-05-2003 23:16									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I would be interested in this type of game. Of course, I would hope that the start positions could be fairly balanced.

Señor NW, how do you envision the start to go? Would it be where the players start with nothing but the knowledge that would be required to play at the Middle Ages level? Or would cities already be layed out? Or would the player begin with several settlers to speed up REX? Just curious...

	19-05-2003 05:47									#9
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OK , so far so good, ideas are poping around like goodiehuts! Keep ´em coming!
I have liked the idea of Aidun to create 2 new city improvements: Citadel and Castle. Citadel Is already placed, it increases city defense by 50 % and bombardment defense by 4 and appearsafter researching construction. Castle is not in already, because I was thinking of making it a smal wonder as, feudal properties had only one huge castle in the Duke´s property, and lesser defenses on smaller ones (like walls and the like). If done like this, the castle would give something like a 75% bonus to defence (Small wonder or not it is planned to appear at engeneering) and a bombardment defense of 2 ( I have tought also of making it require some resource, like stone or the likes of it, to show the enormous amounts of stone required, and also to incentivate cooperation between the lords, at least to some extent). Though many are thinking ´´what the hell is this maniac doing? Does he wants cities that are impossible to invade?´´I want to say that the objective is a more medieval war, were you are obliged to bombard the enemy like a madman before attacking (read my words: long sieges) so I am thinking on improving catapults and instaling trebuches... also I am considering some extra thousand of medieval units... I will put extra resources so that trade can be intense and so that we are not stuck with low production... also plenty of heathens to conquer and If I manage to suceed , we will have new types of specialists for certain clans , more sea units... and whatever our coletive minds create!
Have a nice day,
Nuclear Winter
BTW, I am accepting sugestions for wonders... yes we will have customized wonders

	19-05-2003 08:37									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Nuc, it doesn't appear that I can participate until Summer, perhaps. My PC needs to go into the shop in the next two weeks for repairs...

But, you can have control of the Calamarquists if you want. Our special unit? The Kraken...the master of the seas...

	19-05-2003 08:55									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Count me in!

	19-05-2003 18:06									#12
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I was already in, but now I like it iven more so again: count me in

Nuc, perhaps you should raise the amount of food people eat so that the additional cities that are founded keep being small villages. The main city can than reallt funcion like a capital. Eventually you can give the castle a food bonus.
I like the introduction of stone in the game. What about these additional recourses?
Oranges as luxury , Spain is the country of the oranges.
Wood as strategic recource, not all wood is suitable for building and the making of weaponry.
Leather as strategic recource.
Cotton and wool as luxuries.

Aidun

	20-05-2003 02:22									#13
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Well then,
A breakthrough ahs been achieved! I figured out how to make mostly everything be team exclusive.... here goes the Squid Merchants, who are (at least in this test) exclusive of the Calamari Clan,appearing with a tech that has no age at all (thus being invisible ) and having this tech being ceeded to the team at the beggining...
[edit]Nevermind the screenshot, it showed something that took me lots of work to do but that ain´t that important.[edit]

I need feedback people! For Holy God´s mercy!
Ideas!!!!!!
There are some balance questions that I would like to talk to you people about, so If possible, please hang around in the Undernet room channel #civ3rp Migros ... I shall eventually appear...
Have a nice day.
Ah, before you leave,
this is the edited list of barbarian names, those are very few, (the list requires 76 different names....)so basically for now the others are copyed and pasted... I´d like idea for naems of other barbarian bands (I am probably renaming ´´tribes´´ for ´´bands´´ in the game so that it sounds better[you see, Bandits do not form tribes...])
The List:
Saracen
Pagan
Viking
Norman
Nomad
Mongol
Magyar
Bulgar
Rebel
Bandit
Thiefling
Herectic
Heathen
Landless Knights
Abucacan

Until later,
Nuclear Winter

Last edited by Nuclear Winter on 20-05-2003 at 22:10

	20-05-2003 02:47									#14
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I'm not sure what the screenshot is, though. Can you please explain what it's showing us?

I think you first need to develop the FACTIONS, perhaps have each of the players name their factions, and name their traits. However, it might be easier for us to simply pick current civs and rename them than to try to make up new techs and UUs for every faction.

--Togas

	20-05-2003 22:15									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Well Togas, I am also working in that direction, but I have to start doing something, and as almost no one gave ideas on what they want I am delaying that part a little, working with those who gave me ideas for their fiefs .
As for teh factions, I am going to make them dukedoms or fiefs, as the objective of this is to simulate medieval strugles who happened in the inside of kingdoms. I will add one or two extra techs to certain factions who will have weaker UU´s and mostly get units (both for UU´s and for extra ones)from existing mods.

Anyway keep sending ideas,
Nuc

	22-05-2003 02:51									#16
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Ok ok , the Dejon Clan has expressed their wish to be militaristic and comerciant...
Tell me what you want to be! And tell me in wich province does your city is (if you are currently a city governor, then better... and remember, you can be the lord of north province 1 for example,a nd still have your oponent be the ruler of southern province 1) (ah, refer to this image when looking for the provinces http://members.aol.com/arnelos/regions.jpg )
Yes, portugal will be in :P

	23-05-2003 04:21									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Place the Togas Clan in Castile.

The Togas Clan color is Persian (Royal) Blue

We will be Industrious and Religious

UU will be the Royal Horsemen (Like the Iriquois Mounted Warrior) ... 3/1/2.

--Togas

	23-05-2003 04:42									#18
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Tentative request:

NW, please make the Maser Clan be in Pamplona (if that is regionally feasible )
I don't have a color preference, as long as it isn't pink
Traits are (to be determined once game settings have been finalized)
UU to be the Spanish Hoplite (1/3/1)

Also, what is the barb setting to be? And is the mod going to have a goodie huts, etc? Map size? Anything you can tell about that would be helpful for finalizing my choices. Thanks

	23-05-2003 05:54									#19
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I was just thinking ... are we going to be starting in the Middle Ages? If so, I'd like to change my UU, and any of us who have Stone Age UUs should also consider doing the same.

--Togas

	23-05-2003 06:51									#20
	Remove this text

Togas, just knock he other Civ's back to the stone ages and you won't have any problems!

NW, put me in for the Vikings! But make them Militaristic and Industrius!

	23-05-2003 06:54									#21
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NW; Also put me in for the (1)Andalucia or the (2)Murcia Provence's.

	23-05-2003 17:27									#22
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I take my good own Zaragoza and I want to be industrious commercial.

Aidun

	24-05-2003 01:40									#23
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Seriously, let's start this Feudal war game off in the Middle Ages!

And if we do so, I'd like to change my UU to the Crusader, a 4/2/3 knight replacement (like an Ansar).

--Togas

	24-05-2003 02:27									#24
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Something here people,
1 - We will most likely start at the end of the ancient age
2 - I was thinking of making the crusader available for all religious civs , but this is still in discussion
Ah, and yes, please all update your UU´s to the later ancient/middle ages (and remember that a faction witha weak UU can still receive a good bonus/and or Wonder if it fits the province) . What I mean is kind of : ´´My province has been building militar units since a long time, and My character is warmonmonger, so I ask for militaristic trait´´. Or ´´I have strong relations to the church, so I ask for religious and a wonder or such that is related to the church specially for me´´ or even ´´I am a trader, so I ask for a specialist labourer that is better than others and a wonder´´ . I guess you guys get it

	24-05-2003 03:32									#25
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We just need to balance out all of the traits/bonuses so that we start pretty even.

Personally, I'd like to see this game more about siege warfare and alliances and diplomacy, and less about quick rush strats or UUs.

We need to quickly finalize the list of all of the active Lords that will be participating, and while Nuc is working on the scenerio, we should try to balance out the Houses.

Nuc, Togas, Dejon, Ruby, BigFree, Aidun ... any other factions? I think 7 factions is a perfect # for diplomacy in a game like this so it'd be great to see one more. Maybe the Calimari's will join once History's computer is fixed.

The THEME!
Togas has died and it is unclear who should inherit the throne! The nation of Spain is in anarchy and only one of the noble clans will rule all of Spain! Who will it be??

Winterus Clan -- The silk traders of the northern swamplands. The richest clan in all of Spain and looking to exert their influence and power over the lands.

The Church (Aidun) -- The lands of the one Holy Church & The Pope. Trying to bring order and Unite the nation.

Ruby's Citidel -- the wealthy Lord of the massive metropolis of Pamplona, new Capital of Spain. He controls the most powerful city in all of Spain and hopes to use that power to control all of the nation.

Dejon Clan -- the deposed warlord clan who is out to reconquer their ancient homeland and establish dominance and control of all of Spain.

BigFree Clan-- a Rising noble clan a legitimate claim to the throne but little Spanish history to back it up and little support from the nobles.

Togas -- A distant cousin of Justino Togas takes over the clan. He is in a bitter fight to reclaim the throne, based out of New Madrid, and trying to move the capital of Spain back to where it historically belongs.

Sound good??

--Togas

	24-05-2003 03:36									#26
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You can dole me out any region you want.
Industrious, Scientific
UU--Death Machine, 80/70/80
j/k
UU--Minstrel Dudes, 1/1/3 or something, but make them really cheap to produce. (movement for the minstrel's, uh, ability to move )

Any color but Pink

	24-05-2003 03:42									#27
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That's a very good plan, Togas.

Call my region a bunch of wandering fools or something, it doesn't matter.
---
If you want a seige unit, I suppose something like the trebuchet would be good...can't think that hard right now, I need another caffeine hit (ahh, the beauty of Dr. Pepper and tolerance to it. )

	24-05-2003 03:54									#28
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Sounds Awesome Togas.

You have some work to do NW.

I will stick with the Viking UU. (Beserker)

	24-05-2003 07:36									#29
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Ok People, Then let us start at middle ages.
I´ll start doing my share of the job
Count in HistoryGuy and add to this mr mitchell.
BigFree, just a something, what are you going to call those vikings? GoW mercenaries? Just to remind people every UU and such things must be covered by layers and layers of RP to be accepted. Besides, I would like to invite you folks to write each one a RP text as regarding the actions taken, we should discuss if every turn or each every 2 turns but we should...
Togas, thanks for organizing things here a lil more, and great intros... But a lil correction, HG´s clan is the richest, my clan is not that rich (I am still thinking of a good concept for my Clan´s claim to the throne and UU echonomical advantage and such.
Well then,
let´s get it armed before the influx of returning members leave!
Nuclear Winter

	24-05-2003 18:26									#30
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Ok, I'll play the pope.

The church is religious - scientific.

UU: Swiss Guard 3,5,1

Colour: White or Yellow.

Aidun