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Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
quote:
Well, we were\are under attack. Bush is responsible for preventing further attack. He gets to pick the plan and he will be responsible if it fails. That's just the way it works. So I don't know who is or isn't being rational. I just know that the system is working the way we planned it to. |
There are just so many things to say about this comment, so many!
Lets begin: Iraq has 0 to do with 9/11, (attacking Iraq does nothing to weaken Al qaeda, the ones that carried out 9/11, as this week shows), except ina a round about way: the American people would support the pres. attacking anywhere if they thought it would somehow make them safe post 9/11: 9/11 gave the admin. the excuse they needed to carry out policies they had pre-planned but could not have pushed politically otherwise.
2. "The system is working out like he planned it to"? Yeah, those folks in Bali, Moroco, Riyahd, tunis and so forth, well, they were part of the plan! Ohh, and I guess Bushed knew Osama and a large sectyion of the ladership would get away, or ..so forth and so on.
Iraq was, well, about Iraq, not 9/11. People who think Iraq is about 9/11 are overlooking some very BIG things along the way, and if they think attakcing Iraq will make us safer from Al qaeda, well, that is just another huge misconception. |
Well, I only have one thing to say in response. Maybe you don't see the connection, but the Bush administration has explained why they think there is a connection, and I think their plan is clear. So you can disagree, but you don't get to decide. Furthermore, for now the American people support the president.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
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quote:
So, the French government should feel no reprecussions when they actively oppose American foreign policy? |
Of this sort, specially since France is an ALLY of the US? NO.
The double standard between what france, and lets say, Germany or Russia (or turkey for that matter) 'suffer' shows that anti-French attacks are based on more than just opposition to US Iraq policy, even "active". Let me add, of course, that the only "active" French acts agains the US's invasion were based on defeating a single US-Uk draft resolution that the US actively stated they did not need anyways to justify war, so again, what is being done against the French goes way beyond what the french did, if one takes a calm, rational look at actions, without self-righteous blather.
So yes, the admin. should, move on without these sorts of moronic and utterlt childish acts.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:28
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
quote:
So, the French government should feel no reprecussions when they actively oppose American foreign policy? |
Of this sort, specially since France is an ALLY of the US? NO. |
I think that's what might be under review.
quote:
The double standard between what france, and lets say, Germany or Russia (or turkey for that matter) 'suffer' shows that anti-French attacks are based on more than just opposition to US Iraq policy, even "active". Let me add, of course, that the only "active" French acts agains the US's invasion were based on defeating a single US-Uk draft resolution that the US actively stated they did not need anyways to justify war, so again, what is being done against the French goes way beyond what the french did, if one takes a calm, rational look at actions, without self-righteous blather.
So yes, the admin. should, move on without these sorts of moronic and utterlt childish acts. |
Germany and Russia said they didn't like it, and would say so in any vote.
The French went out and campaigned in the media and among nations against it. They tried to silence support for the Yanks within Europe. There is a bit of a difference.
You may say that resolution was nothing, but obviously the Brits and Yanks didn't think so, otherwise they would not have put in effort to get it. Besides, what does it matter where the president stays during some visit? So far it is diplomatic *** for tat. What are you getting so excited about?
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Worthingtons
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Pride Park,Derby
Jan 2002
time: 05:28
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Gepap, you seem to steriotype the whole pro-war camp, which most consistant of quite a lot of people around the world eh?
Expected better.
Cheers
Matt
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
I think that's what might be under review. |
actually, no it isn't.
quote:
Germany and Russia said they didn't like it, and would say so in any vote.
The French went out and campaigned in the media and among nations against it. They tried to silence support for the Yanks within Europe. There is a bit of a difference.
You may say that resolution was nothing, but obviously the Brits and Yanks didn't think so, otherwise they would not have put in effort to get it. Besides, what does it matter where the president stays during some visit? So far it is diplomatic *** for tat. What are you getting so excited about? |
What diplomatic *** for tat? The French aren;t remaing foods, urging boycottsd, and all that other idiocy.
And what I am getting so excited about (you seems to have been very excited at bashing the French earlier, so I guess the question also applies to you) is that we have a bunch of self-righteous idiots helping to undermine one of the most important pillars of world security today, the US-Europe relations, for no worthwhile benefit at all (anyone who thinks "new Europe" can replace "old europe" within the next 50 years is mad)
quote:
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So are you saying that the French should complain or that they just have the right to? |
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They have the right. What they do is their business. |
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That isn't an answer to my question. You already stated that you think they have the right. That's not in question. Of course they have that right. |
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
You know what we need here on Apolyton, a member from the French right. I think most of the French posters here are from the French left. Not so? The problem we have with France today is coming from Chirac, a Gaullist. The Gaullists appear to French nationalists in strong contrast to the left who might approach anti-Americanism from a more traditional communist point of view. |
Most US apologists in France come from the right, if not all of them. During the pre-war diplomatic crisis, former PM and influent advisor Alain Juppé suggested to tone down the opposition in order not to rip apart the transatlantic friendship.
However, it is true the right-wingers can be antiamerican to some extent, and this antiamericanism is the result of the clash of egoes between our two countries. Both France and USA are countries with universal values, i.e countries which know better.
And the typical antiamericanism in France comes from the fact we are pissed that the cowboys are now in charge rather than the rational and intelligent us  (ok, I'm exaggerating  ). More seriously, the American messianism bothers the left wingers like in most other left-wings in the world. And it pisses some right-wingers because it is not France which is doing the job.
There was a classical assumption in the wake of the French enlightenment that France was a special country which was lucky enough to host this enlightenment, and had to spread it around the world. At least, it was the ideological background behind the agressive wars waged by the Revolution and by Napoleon. This "Civilizing Mission" was also the ideological justification of the African colonization.
This messianism is a real trauma to me, as it has been a complete failure. The noble ideas behind spreading democracy and modernity to the world have been spoiled by megalomania, greed, and the ignorance of what the targeted populations wanted.
When I see Bush's US, I think they are doing exactly the same mistakes as 19th century's France. Exactly the same.
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18-05-2003 06:49
what page is this? 15?
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