17-05-2003 18:15									#1
	Affirmative action: Reverse racism or concessions for past atrocities? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Whats your view on it?

	17-05-2003 18:22									#2
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Reverse racism

	17-05-2003 18:22									#3
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I am against it. It doesn't solve any problems, only creates them.

	17-05-2003 18:26									#4
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WHAT?! No poll??

Two threads a day and only one of them a poll. You're losing it Vesayen.

Oh, and reverse racism, yeah.

	17-05-2003 19:09									#5
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Neither.

It's an imperfect remedy for continuing racism and discrimination.

	17-05-2003 19:20									#6
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Using racism to remedy racism ultimately collapses like a house of cards. It's inconsistent and unsustainable.

There's a shitload of problems with the educational system, and the perilous state of youth in general, where I live. AA does nothing to remedy them .

	17-05-2003 20:34									#7
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It's an attempt to remedy past racism.

I can't quite agree with Detroit Dave the AA does nothing to remedy school problems. But the more I look into it, the more I conclude that AA in schools also has avoidable negative impacts--such as the unintended message that minorities need AA in order to succeed in school. So I'm becoming a beliver in AA based upon financial status, not race.

Because racial diversity in the workplace is a desirable thing, I still support some AA there.

	17-05-2003 21:07									#8
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Ah, the two Liberal viewpoints.

Nah, it's about the balancing of power between groups in society. Pretty straightforward way of making the groups that have relatively less power gain slightly more, and bring the groups that have too much power compared to their size down a peg or two.

	17-05-2003 21:27									#9
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What groups? White people and Black people?

	17-05-2003 21:41									#10
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Generally, a bad idea.

	17-05-2003 22:27									#11
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I think we need to have students expensively educated in another country brought down a peg or two.

	17-05-2003 22:42									#12
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Reverse discrimination. The only legitimate 'affirmative action' in terms of admissions to college campuses should be based on class, not race, becuase class alone determines how easy or difficult it is for you to excel in life. Born into a rich family with good education and healthcare - your chances are good. Born into a poor inner city family with poor education and healthcare - your chances are bad. Race has nothing to do with it, as Black people can be rich poor or middle class, as can whites asians hispanics etc.

	17-05-2003 22:46									#13
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Why not treat people as individuals Orange?

There have been failures from rich families, and successes from poor ones.

	17-05-2003 23:18									#14
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Practical compassion, unless carried too far.

	17-05-2003 23:56									#15
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quote: Originally posted by orange Reverse discrimination. The only legitimate 'affirmative action' in terms of admissions to college campuses should be based on class, not race, becuase class alone determines how easy or difficult it is for you to excel in life. Born into a rich family with good education and healthcare - your chances are good. Born into a poor inner city family with poor education and healthcare - your chances are bad. Race has nothing to do with it, as Black people can be rich poor or middle class, as can whites asians hispanics etc.

Socialist bollocks. Why is it that Arabic doctors in sweden are forced to take jobs selling ****ing hot dogs while there's a huge demand for people with their skills in hospitals? Why are there no women cheif executives in the entire fortune 500? Why do working-class people hurl racist abuse at blacks, exclude them from their communities and treat them as less? Why is it still socially acceptable to hate homosexuals?

Ask anyone from the less powerful groups how they feel, get their perspective on things before dismissing their problems as by-products of the Capitalist system.

	17-05-2003 23:57									#16
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I still don't know how are decisions made in your society ( I don't know how to call it )

	18-05-2003 00:00									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Buck Birdseed Socialist bollocks.

What does socialism have to do with it? The class-only arguement of AA is argued mostly by the right.

	18-05-2003 00:10									#18
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AA is largely responsible for the increase in job opportunities for white women.

AA is not a remedy for past racism, but for current racism and sexism. The purpose is that it forces companies and institutions to accept qualified aplicants that might otherwise be rejected solely on account of race or gender. Despite what many people think, this is still quite common.

Despite the belief's of idiots like Donald Trump, being Black or Hispanic in the US is still a handicap when trying to get a job or an education or a place to live or a loan from the bank or when dealing with the government.

Now, should that handicap be worth 20 in the UMichigan applications system? Maybe, maybe not. Seems kinda high to me since the academic disparity between whites overall and Blacks overall isn't very great when measured by the SAT and ACT (only 1 point on the ACT, IIRC). On the other hand, Blacks only make about 70% of what whites make in the job market. So you have a range between 3% to 30%.

	18-05-2003 00:22									#19
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Let's assume the roles are reversed. Would you be happy acquiring a job due to your skin colour or race, Chegitz?

How would you feel acquiring that job, when you got it because the company needed to fulfil a quota?

I am completely against AA. AA..the new KKK.

	18-05-2003 00:24									#20
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Racism is wrong and so AA is wrong.

	18-05-2003 00:25									#21
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Stew, you're on my ignore list. Don't bother trying to argue with me.

	18-05-2003 00:39									#22
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quote: Socialist bollocks. Why is it that Arabic doctors in sweden are forced to take jobs selling ****ing hot dogs while there's a huge demand for people with their skills in hospitals? Why are there no women cheif executives in the entire fortune 500? Why do working-class people hurl racist abuse at blacks, exclude them from their communities and treat them as less? Why is it still socially acceptable to hate homosexuals?

On the other hand, Snappy, how come the anti-Irish prejudice has all but disappeared (to the best of my knowledge) from the US? How come anti-Catholicism is consigned to nutcases like Jack T. Chick? (If we're not counting the new progressive anti-Catholicism, of course.) How come it's no longer socially acceptable to hate Jews?

Progress happens. There wasn't even a need for any social engineering to achieve it. Fancy that.

	18-05-2003 00:43									#23
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Stew, you're on my ignore list. Don't bother trying to argue with me.

Gaylord.

	18-05-2003 00:50									#24
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Oh look, Stewie's learnt a new word.

	18-05-2003 00:54									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Stefu On the other hand, Snappy, how come the anti-Irish prejudice has all but disappeared (to the best of my knowledge) from the US?

They're white, but they're also Catholic.

quote: How come anti-Catholicism is consigned to nutcases like Jack T. Chick? (If we're not counting the new progressive anti-Catholicism, of course.)

What progressive anti-Catholicism? Evangalist anti-Catholicism hasn't ended here, btw. I know people who lived in parts of the US where they had to keep their Catholicism a secret.

quote: How come it's no longer socially acceptable to hate Jews?

Mainly because of the Holocaust, but it still happens rather frequently in the US. I'm not just talking about whacko's like skniheads and neo-nazi types. I've known people who got beat up in school for being a Christ-killer, and in parts of the South Jews are treated like second class citizens who are tolerated as long as they don't complain.

	18-05-2003 00:59									#26
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It's my belief that minorities should integrate themselves, rather than expecting the natives to do it for them.

	18-05-2003 01:02									#27
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I think it's a well established fact that no one really gives a damn what you think, Stewie.

	18-05-2003 01:20									#28
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AA is all about treating people according to their group status, not as individuals. It's legalized discrimination - the same kind of discrimination the civil rights act was supposed to end.

	18-05-2003 01:22									#29
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It's white-bashing, that's why the libs love it so much.

	18-05-2003 01:26									#30
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It's the reason incompetents like Blair Jayson got promoted to high positions in the NY Times - a 'diverse' workforce is considered more important than a quality workforce.