26-07-2003 01:46									#481
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And good stuff on the making sure every city is building colony pods, that is exactly what we need.

- Rokossovky

	26-07-2003 02:05									#482
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Marshal, our turn is posted. Are you gonna do it? Or will you wait till tonight?

	26-07-2003 02:15									#483
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I opened the turn, and Whoa, lots of ****. In the negotiations screen we've offered Information Networks and a PACT, they've accepted this... do we? Also, we now know where their scout is heading, 5,23, quickest way out.

- Rokossovky

Last edited by Rokossovky on 26-07-2003 at 02:38

	26-07-2003 02:22									#484
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I believe this is the concensus. If you want to make 100% sure, you can wait a little while. I believe Comrade Kody will get online real soon. But I'm quite sure we wanted to accept the techs as well as the pact.

	26-07-2003 04:58									#485
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They didn't give us techs.

Kody

	26-07-2003 07:11									#486
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Next turn.

F1- moves north and builds road.
B1 - Former finishes sensor array and goes to forest the nutrient. Colony pod builds city there, HongHu what's the new city name that you wanted?

M1- Road then mine. We need to prepare for the SP and the mines that we will crawler.

T1 - Drone transport I think.....
Large red dot - Drone Scout.

__________________________________________________
_
Change the worker to the minerals instead of the nutrient.
Rush buy the colony pod for 10ECs.

In the following turn change the worker back to nutrient.

The reason for this is so we can rush buy the former and still have 80 EC for switching to planned and wealth in 2 turns. Being able to switch to planned and wealth straight away means more energy and faster growth and production at the start of our turn.

Some of the other plans are found here.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...088#post2185088

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 28-07-2003 at 05:54

	26-07-2003 08:09									#487
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All appears well for the People of The Hive. I would only suggest exploration in the vicinity of Jamski Clove. Other than the potential for a good base site, there is likely not much there. Then again, we may actually find an extension of our continent.

	26-07-2003 08:10									#488
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We're waiting for a unit to become available for exploration.

Kody

	27-07-2003 21:04									#489
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Hey - Jamski Clovek

-Jam

	29-07-2003 05:56									#490
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Industrial Economics received from the drones.
We built a new base called HongHu KongHu.




Turn plan for 2125.

*in the works*

	29-07-2003 06:39									#491
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Turn plan for 2125

IC stuff
- Name correction "Feckin' Cheeky Tower"
- Landmark Naming

Non-Military Units

F1

• finishes sensor
  
• moves north
  
• builds a road - connecting city B2 to "The hive"
  
• moves to nutrient builds forest.
  

F2

• finishes sensor
  
• goes south
  
• builds farm
  
• builds road?
  
• heads to nearby base site to build sensor
  

F3

• finishes road
  
• builds forest?
  
• moves north
  
• builds road?
  
• explores area?
  
• finds next base site and builds sensor
  

F4

• finishes forest
  
• explores north and assists F3 with next base site?
  
• or heads south and forests area around voltairograd?
  

F5

• finishes road
  
• moves to B1 using 2/3 moves and terraform save up
  
• Builds sensor at B1
  
• Heads back to Feckin' Tower's nutrient to build farm.
  

F6

• finishes road
  
• builds mine
  
• moves north-west
  
• builds mine
  

F7

• completed at HongHu KongHu
  
• moves north-east, and assist with building forest?
  
• moves south, and roads?
  
• moves south twice, and assists F6?
  

Last edited by Kody on 29-07-2003 at 11:16

	29-07-2003 13:04									#492
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Rokossovky was asking about prototyping lasers and after some research it was found that we can prototype lasers, +2 armor, rover, and foil for the same cost as prototyping lasers on a infantry unit. This will cost the same amount as a colony pod.

Obviously this requires flexibility, so it may be a good idea to propose leapfrogging with the drones for flexibility. It is estimated that it will take 10 years to achieve flexibility.

Kody

	29-07-2003 15:19									#493
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Then we SHOULD get one crappy base that builds prototypes. We'll need them, this is a PBEM which means war will be inevitable at some stage.

-Jam

	30-07-2003 05:39									#494
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Instead of the directly building the SP, lets build crawlers.

Kody

	30-07-2003 06:50									#495
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quote: Originally posted by Kody Instead of the directly building the SP, lets build crawlers. Kody

Yes, let's do the instabuild trick.

	30-07-2003 07:09									#496
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It's more because making crawlers is like putting money in the bank. We get interest out of it, by crawling more minerals. The instant build is only a secondary issue.

Kody

	30-07-2003 09:06									#497
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Yay! Lotsa crawlers! That green valley looks bea-utifil. Lotsa of road help too!

	30-07-2003 09:06									#498
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I LOVE the crawlers idea. Re: the laser infantry.... the CMC has decided that with the outbreak of war lasers would become almost completely obselete. In other words, it would be a waste of time building them. Wait for Impactors, those should provide us with compriable firepower for the forseeable future. Oh, and moves for next turn.

	30-07-2003 13:51									#499
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Just thinking ahead a bit... in the future we should consider moving the HQ to Frickin' Cheeky Towers to cut down a bit on inefficiency.

And its better to have one base building the SP with others contributing crawlers, rather than having the SP base making crawlers as well. Just a bit more efficient But we'd want to feed the base with crawlers from all over the place, first to rehome and then crawl minerals, and then to crash them into the SP itself. We should manage to get ONE Sp at least out of the first 5 big ones.

-Jam

	30-07-2003 13:59									#500
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Umm you build crawlers in the SP base, because you can use those minerals to crawler more minerals.

When you've got enough minerals you send all the crawlers back to the city and build the SP. Otherwise those minerals sit in the build doing nothing.

Kody

	30-07-2003 19:51									#501
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I agree with Kody. If the cost of a crawler is 25, and it is used to crawl the rocky mineral resouce, it really have a very short payback time. I'm sure it is shorter than the time needed to finishing the first SP. After it is paid off all the rest of years it contributes more minerals to the SP which means we will actually finish the SP quicker than if we don't build the crawler first.

	31-07-2003 01:05									#502
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I think that Jamski meant that it be easier to build crawlers on the periphery , and then rehome them to the SP site before crawling minerals. Of course we should only start cashing them when we have enough to finish, otherwise we would be wasting potential mineral production...

	31-07-2003 02:07									#503
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Yes, that is all agreed. The question is though, should we build a couple crawlers before we start the SP in the same base.

I don't have the exact cost figures but here is the idea:
Suppose a SP costs 210 and a crawler costs 25 and the base mineral is 8 per turn. If the base starts from the beginning to build the SP, without the help of the crawlers it will be about 25 years with rush buy for the last 2 years. Now if you build two crawlers first, with rush building it's 2 turns per crawler, and you get stock pile energy twice as an added bonus. In the end of the 4th turn the base mineral is 12 per turn. And it will take it 17 turns with rush build for the last year to finish the SP. This sum up to 21 turns (2+2+17) which is 4 turns earlier.

Now let's assume we build 2 crawlers in each of the other 5 bases. It will take around probably 8-9 turns for all the crawlers to be ready and travelled to close to the SP base. Let's say in the 6th turn 5 crawlers are ready to be cashed in (another one is still on the road), if the SP base has started SP from the very beginning, it will have accumulated 8*6=48 minerals, 162 to go. The 5 crawlers means 125 minerals, we are still lacking 37 and the rush cost is 148, we probably don't have that much cash. One options is to wait a couple of more turns for another crawler (25 + 8*2 = 41 >37).

If the SP base starts with one crawler than proceeds to build SP, then by turn 6 it would have accumulated (8+2)*4 = 40 minerals. 170 to go. But now we have 6 crawlers (vs 5). That is 25*6=150. We can rush it at a cost of 20*4 = 80 and get the SP two turns earlier, or wait for one more turn and rush it at a cost of 10*4 = 40 and still get the SP one turn early.

If the SP base starts with two crawler than proceeds to build SP, then by turn 6 it would have accumulated (8+2+2)*2 = 24 minerals. 186 to go. But now we have 7 crawlers (vs 5). That is 25*7=175. We can definitely rush it at a cost of 11*4 = 44 and get the SP two turns earlier.

Now let's see if building 3 crawlers in the SP base will be worth it. By end of turn 6 we have not even started SP. But we have 3 crawlers ready. That is (5+3)*25=200. We cash them in, rush the last 10 mineral at a cost of 40. Boom! We have instabuild an SP in the 7th turn. Nobody knows about it until it's done, we got three more turns of stock pile energies, plus the crawlers have added considerable amount to the total production capacity.

I'm in favor of instabuild per this analysis.

One important thing is that we need to order our formers to build roads so that crawlers can travel faster to the SP base.

	31-07-2003 02:42									#504
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The only point for starting a SP early is to deter others from trying because they would think that they cannot outbuild you. Like the Drone's had specified in the pact document: "SPs close to completion by one faction should not be rush built by the other faction. Close to completion means expected to complete in three turns or less with current production."

However this could only be a good strategy in the very early game when nobody else had the tech for the SP. When they finally have the tech they'll suspect that you are gonna finish this SP any time now.

If an SP is already available to multiple factions, you starting a SP could have the opposite effect of detering, that is it maybe very likely that it will promote others also starting it and trying to outbuild you.

Instabuild on the other hand, do not have this drawbacks. You decide which one you want at the last minute and you get it with 100% assurity. This also has an added benefit. Suppose the Drones are doing ME but they really want to switch to WP later. Now by instabuild you have deprived their opportunity of switching, versas if you start WP early, Drone's will switch to WP and claim that they are already close to completion and you are not allowed to rush it to get it.

	31-07-2003 06:18									#505
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Pretty much, for our 2nd SP. For our first SP I think the drones are the only ones who could be able to outbuilding us.

Now to do the turn update.

Kody

	31-07-2003 06:20									#506
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And the Dataangels are in the race for the 3rd SP.

	31-07-2003 06:52									#507
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Turn 2125




For Turn 2126.

* When we get planetary networks accept, then switch to Planned.
* Select IA as next tech.
* When we get IA, switch to wealth, and change SE settings to 40% 0% 60%. We get 2 more energy if we change at the same time as changing to wealth rather than during the turn.
* Give IA to drones and preaccept.

Admendments to previous plan

* HongHu KongHu - gets a scout so building colony pod instead
* HongHu KongHu may instead build a crawler if a new base site isn't decided on.

* Former F2 builds forest instead of farm.
* R2 moves west twice.
* R1 moves along river northwards.
* S1 goes to HongHu KongHu to guard.
* Rush buy minerals in Voltairograd for 8 EC
* Rush buy minerals in The Hive for 2 EC
(The rush buy is so that we are converting our money into minerals for 2 ECs per mineral. Also so we can start crawling those mines sooner.)

* Kommie city changes to crawler and places 2nd worker on mineral.
* HongHu KongHu builds scout, or crawler???
* The colony pod from Voltiograd heads to base site B3 as transit is only 3 turns.
* Rush the colony pod in Feckin' and the B1 base is built faster than if the colony pod came from Voltiograd.
* F3 may move northwards twice and build a sensor up there???

Reminder of things Kody needs to do.
* Close the tech deal with the drones (deadline next turn) (Biogentics being researched by the hive. Further tech negotiations can be delayed)
* Calculate the formers moves required to set up two sensors/base sites for the colony pods from HongHu-KongHu and Jamski-Clove. (deadline next turn) (cutting back on two colony pods, and 2 new base sites planned for a later date)
* Write Pravda since Jamski has turned slack. (yah someone els doing it!)
* Calculate the fastest path to building Weather Paradigm (deadline 2 turns) (have a rough idea will fine tune it as game progresses)
* Help Jamski and Voltaire set up the government meetings. (deadline 9th August)
* Start the IC story in the embassy forum. (Someone else do it please?)

Kody

Last edited by Kody on 02-08-2003 at 04:15

	31-07-2003 07:47									#508
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Oh yeah, observant people may have noticed extra land. How did that happen? Was it a hyperactive former? Tectonic missile? No, it was a malfunctioning pod that triggered an earthquake!

	31-07-2003 08:24									#509
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quote: When we get IA, switch to wealth, and change SE settings to 40% 0% 60%. We get 2 more energy if we change at the same time as changing to wealth rather than during the turn.

Please explain about the 2 more energy.
Also, an idea that I remember reading some time ago, that if you start building crawlers and then switch to wealth when you got the first crawlers in each base. This means the crawlers still have high minerals imbedded but the SP cost is reduced, this way you can build your SP even faster. Don't know if it is something worth of thinking about?

Other things:
Jamski, get up and do your Pravda! We don't want to work comrade Kody till he vomit blood either do we?
IC story: Well Comrade Vev started one sentence IC story already. Would you like a real IC story too? If so any topic in mind?

	31-07-2003 09:44									#510
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quote: Please explain about the 2 more energy.

The energy from our main city gets us IA, we switch to wealth. The wealth gives +1 energy in every base and the base energy calculations continue with the new SE settings. Jamski and Kommie end up losing 1 energy each to pysch. So we switch back to 40% 0 60% at the same time as switching to wealth and regain that 2 energy as ECs.

quote: Also, an idea that I remember reading some time ago, that if you start building crawlers and then switch to wealth when you got the first crawlers in each base. This means the crawlers still have high minerals imbedded but the SP cost is reduced, this way you can build your SP even faster. Don't know if it is something worth of thinking about?

Disallowed.
I considered it about 3 days ago, but then I checked the rules, which said "No SE quickie switches". If we don't do a quickie switch then it costs 80 EC to do. Which is not cost effective for less than about 10 crawlers.

For the IC story proper, anything to do with SMAC/SMAX will do. It's just to show the drones we're not complete spammers, but also do some serious roleplay.

Kody