18-05-2003 11:21									#31
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quote: Originally posted by DanS That statement lacks a certain amount of precision.

Do you want cites?

	18-05-2003 11:22									#32
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Well, at least you can do a little better.

	18-05-2003 11:25									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Well, at least you can do a little better.

What sort of things would you accept?

	18-05-2003 11:27									#34
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How about a general article from a respected scientific source (i.e., nothing from Cat Lovers Today magazine).

	18-05-2003 11:28									#35
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I certainly think that what he did was very VERY wrong. He was cruel, and has damaged his own soul, as well as inflicting pain to the lady. Now, it should be determined by a team of psychiatrists what's wrong with that kid, if at all, and treatment should be held accordingly.

	18-05-2003 11:38									#36
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Maybe you will listen to your church on this issue Dan if you don't think this is sick. From the Cathecism of the RCC:

"2418. "It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons. "



"How much did she buy the cat for? How much could she sell the cat for? I suggest to you that the value of the cat is near zero."

It's valubale to her though. She would most likely not be willing to sell the cat except for a high value, if at all.

"Why? She's treating a cat like it's her son"

I wouldn't take that literally. She's not dressing the cat up in clothes, sending it to school, etc. What she likely means here is that she loves the cat very much.

"Sure she has the right. But it's not much of the law's business."

It is when her property is destroyed. It is the laws business when you do an illegal act that results in strong mental and emotional trauma. Like it or not, it is normal in our society for people to form emotional bonds with their pets, the law is cogniscent of that reality, hence the possibility of prison time for the boy.

	18-05-2003 11:43									#37
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the law is cogniscent of that reality, hence the possibility of prison time for the boy

No, the law was probably put in place so that people won't be cruel to their dogs to get them to fight better. Or have **** fights.

After reading the passage from the catechism, I stand by my posts--it supports my position.

	18-05-2003 11:48									#38
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The law against cruetly to animals was probably put in place maybe to..... prevent cruelty to animals? If being cruel to your own dog is bad then doing this to someone's else animal is worse.

	18-05-2003 11:56									#39
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The law against cruetly to animals was probably put in place maybe to..... prevent cruelty to animals?

Righto. Not to prevent the lady from being sad, or punish the boy because she's sad. Just because he's mean, doesn't make it the law's business.

The Mad Monk is ready to feed the boy to a gator and Dino is ready to assault the poor young fellow. It would be a travesty of justice if they were on a jury trying the case.

	18-05-2003 12:01									#40
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It's about time. Too many damn cats in this world.

	18-05-2003 12:02									#41
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I just have to say I support feeding Ville Valo and rest of the band to the gator. Or even better, make them use a computer with Gator installed for the rest of their life.

	18-05-2003 12:03									#42
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Nah, I don't believe DanS's trolling is real. No-one could be that far removed from reality. Honestly.

	18-05-2003 12:07									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DanS How about a general article from a respected scientific source (i.e., nothing from Cat Lovers Today magazine).

Does the APA count? You'll have to forgive me if I take the bastard's claims of remorse with a large grain of salt.

	18-05-2003 12:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Nah, I don't believe DanS's trolling is real.

Of course it isn't real.

	18-05-2003 12:11									#45
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"Righto. Not to prevent the lady from being sad, or punish the boy because she's sad. Just because he's mean, doesn't make it the law's business."

It's how the law is though applied Dan. Circumstances of what has happened certainly can and should play a role in determining whether the kid should be charged as an adult, and for his penalty the emotional trauma inflicted as a result can be taken into account, and that is would should happen here.

"Nah, I don't believe DanS's trolling is real. No-one could be that far removed from reality. Honestly."

Ya, Dan is a cool guy. I don't really believe he could be so devoid of empathy.

	19-05-2003 01:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The law against cruetly to animals was probably put in place maybe to..... prevent cruelty to animals? Righto. Not to prevent the lady from being sad, or punish the boy because she's sad. Just because he's mean, doesn't make it the law's business. The Mad Monk is ready to feed the boy to a gator and Dino is ready to assault the poor young fellow. It would be a travesty of justice if they were on a jury trying the case.

Why? If I thought they got the wrong person, I would vote to acquit. If he were guilty, I would vote to convict. If we also had to assess penalty...it would depend.

My main problem is, why did he go back and get the neighbors? Is it because he was feeling bad about it? That seems to be the implication they make in the article, but if that is case, he certainly had a quick turnaround from visciously kicking the cat and throwing it to the gator, and remorsefully telling the family. The cat was still in the gator's mouth -- it dosen't seem to me that the gator would be slow, so he must have run to them immediately after throwing the cat in, and ran back with them. He also initially said another boy did it, so he could avoid blame.

So I ask you --why did he fetch them so quickly?

Because he was feeling guilty?

Or because he wanted to see their faces as a gator killed and devoured a beloved pet?

	19-05-2003 02:30									#47
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quote: Ya, Dan is a cool guy. I don't really believe he could be so devoid of empathy.

Funny, that's the same thing I always tell myself about you righties and your 'screw the poor' attitude

	19-05-2003 02:31									#48
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Get a grip. It's a ****ing cat people.

	19-05-2003 02:33									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The Mad Monk is ready to feed the boy to a gator and Dino is ready to assault the poor young fellow. It would be a travesty of justice if they were on a jury trying the case.

And I'd be ready to kick him in the stomach and the head and THEN feed him to the gator.

What this boy did was and is horrible and he should get the maximum penalty the law can afford.

I don't see why some people dont think he should?! He needs severe psychatic treatment and then he needs to go to jail. Murder is one thing, but to kick the animal twice in sensative areas....Its sick and i hope he rots for what hes done.

	19-05-2003 02:35									#50
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Because it's a ****ing cat, that's why. Does no-one have any sense of proportion?

	19-05-2003 02:38									#51
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OH MY GOD! 14-YEAR OLD ACCIDENTALLY KILLED HIS OWN CAT!

WHAT A SICK BASTARD! SENTENCE HIM FOR 50 YEARS IN PRISON, NO MORE, NO LESS!

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

	19-05-2003 02:39									#52
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* Because it's a ****ing cat, that's why. Does no-one have any sense of proportion?

And its still a living being. A SELF AWARE living being, one that people bring into their family as THEIR OWN.

Do you have no sense of EMPATHY?

	19-05-2003 02:39									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu OH MY GOD! 14-YEAR OLD ACCIDENTALLY KILLED HIS OWN CAT!

Not accidently, not his own cat

	19-05-2003 02:49									#54
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One third of Americans have no access to healthcare. And you're lecturing me about empathy?

	19-05-2003 02:53									#55
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I guess the question is which is more important, the boy or the cat? If he goes to prison at 14 he will probably be raped and otherwise abused. Most 14 year old boys do stupid things at one time or another. He is a child. Treat him like one. He really is more important than a cat. I hav never had any sympathy for people who are cruel to animals but I have even less sympathy for people who are cruel to kids. Someone used the word "proportion." Exactly.

	19-05-2003 03:07									#56
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Damn! Can't find that bloody quote by Octave Mirebau (Or was it someone else?). Some of you people would really benefit from it... Even better, read a story or a novel by him. Frankly, I'm still looking for a full translation to read... What it says, far more eloquently than I am able, is that as long as people are cruel, murderous and unfeeling to animals they will be the same to other humans. Just as ertain human beings were seen inferior and therefore "fair game" (a good chunk of my relatives some two and three generations back were exterminated that way), people now say "it's just a cat".

If any distinction should be made, it is that the kid has the power of reason that should enable him to see what is right and what is wrong. Cats and other animals do not have this power, yet somehow they are far, far less prone to cause suffering and death just for the bloody sake of it.

	19-05-2003 03:31									#57
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quote: Originally posted by *End Is Forever* One third of Americans have no access to healthcare. And you're lecturing me about empathy?

Well, your here. The Congress is in Washington DC.

It's much easier to lecture you than it is to lecture them

quote: I guess the question is which is more important, the boy or the cat? If he goes to prison at 14 he will probably be raped and otherwise abused. Most 14 year old boys do stupid things at one time or another. He is a child. Treat him like one. He really is more important than a cat. I hav never had any sympathy for people who are cruel to animals but I have even less sympathy for people who are cruel to kids. Someone used the word "proportion." Exactly.

Murder is murder, whether it be murder of an animal or murder of a human. Kids do make mistakes, and they need to learn that there are consequences to those mistakes. All life should be treated and guarded as life, and if the consequences are for him to be sent to jail, then he should be sent to jail unless there are extinuating (sp) circumstances.

	19-05-2003 04:06									#58
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I would be interested in knowing his relationship to his neighbors. The girl is about his age.

What if he did this to terrorize them? Would that change your views on the matter?

	19-05-2003 04:14									#59
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A cat can't be murdered, by definition of murder. It can only be killed. The child broke the law and should be punished, but i don't think the maximum is correct, given the lack of priors. A stiff fine and community service would suffice.

	19-05-2003 04:23									#60
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full name and address? what's up with that?