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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:48 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Never mind on the ACLU about the St.Louis event, however, at www.aclu.org there is a front page article about spying on California activists.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
a "liberal" news source - in the same sense that indymedia is a "liberal" news source?


I don't know about indymedia. Democracy Now isn't a source of left wing propaganda. It's just a non-mainstream news source. So you hear some things there that you don't hear mainstream.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:50 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Sorry... I won't be quiet. I will continue to object to your insults and stereotypes until you have proper information/experience to base them on.


Follow your own advice please.

quote:
I don't proclaim to be perfect. But at least my opinions and my ignorant stereotypes are based upon experience. Your stereotypes about Americans are as accurate as my stereotypes about Argentinians...


I know more about Americans than I do Argentinians. Why bring them up in this?

Experience? I lived in the US for much of my life.. so I think I can be well equipped when saying something.

Sava is offline Sava
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:51
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quote:
Originally posted by SlowwHand
This is like if someone gets bit by a dog, it's their fault for sticking their leg in the dog's mouth.
This is America... the Constitution grants people civil rights... perhaps in your jingoistic corner of Texas, civil rights don't exist...

Sava is offline Sava
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Fez: then answer my question... how many Americans do you know? How many "liberal" Americans do you know?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:53 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I'm sorry, Che, but the article seem to suggest the commies were trespassing.


They owned the building. See the part where it says they bought the building from the city last year? The police brought a building inspector with them, who condemned the building, so the police could enter without a warrent, arrest the activists, and confiscate their belongings. The police seized, among other things, 55 bikes. The activists have recovered some of the bikes, all of which tires have been slashed.

Listen here.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:55 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Fez: then answer my question... how many Americans do you know? How many "liberal" Americans do you know?


Well about a hundred or so in my school.. well not all but I know a few of them as friends.. I also know many officials at the American Embassy here. A few are liberals... my english teacher from New Hampshire is.

Also you might want to know my sister is a socialist. And I get along with her well...

It is just you who I have a problem with here.

Ned is offline Ned
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:56
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


They owned the building. See the part where it says they bought the building from the city last year? The police brought a building inspector with them, who condemned the building, so the police could enter without a warrent, arrest the activists, and confiscate their belongings. The police seized, among other things, 55 bikes. The activists have recovered some of the bikes, all of which tires have been slashed.

Listen here.


OK, did they arrest the commies because they were violating a condemnation order - a form of trespassing?

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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Dec 2000
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:56
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st louis dispatch, edited for length



St. Louis police search a home Friday in the 3000 block of Cherokee Street. Police say the raid was to enforce housing laws, but activists who were staying there said it was to clamp down on protests at the World Agricultural Forum here this weekend.



It was good fortune, St. Louis police said, when raids Friday to enforce housing laws yielded "weapons" like rocks and nails from homes of some people planning to protest the World Agricultural Forum here this weekend.

But the activists said it was just an excuse to get in and snoop.

More than a dozen people were arrested - none on weapons violations - and most remained in jail into Friday night.

"This is political repression. We're being targeted," said Molly Dupre, glassy-eyed as she emerged on bail from police headquarters after about seven hours in custody on a charge of occupying a condemned building.

DuPre, 23, of St. Charles, described herself as an anarchist and six weeks pregnant.

Joe Mokwa, chief of a police department clearly edgy about what the coming days will bring, told reporters, "We are very concerned. We can certainly draw conclusions and expectations after we found these items."

Some of those things - a bag of rocks and a bucket of nails - seem fairly common to a home under rehabilitation, as some of those raided were. But they appeared more sinister when paired on a display table with a sling shot, whips and torches.


Similar devices were used as weapons in large-scale demonstrations at international conferences in Seattle and Washington, D.C., officials said.

These were seized from a condemned building at 3309 Illinois Avenue and a building at 3022 Cherokee Street. Mokwa said no weapons charges were filed because nothing could be linked to specific people.

Police said neighbors' complaints spurred the raids; names of those complaining were not revealed. The building on Illinois had been condemned.

"The timing is coincidental because these people just got here," Mokwa said. "We have an obligation to investigate complaints. We are not going to allow people to reside in abandoned buildings."

Activists said police circled the buildings for days, questioning anyone on foot or bicycle.

"It's definitely systematic harassment of protesters," said Art Friedrich, who lives at 3022 Cherokee.

Fifteen people arrested at the home on Illinois were cited for a city ordinance violation of occupying a condemned building, Mokwa said. It had no occupancy permit, according to building inspectors.

Some of those staying there insisted it was not condemned. Three people, who bought it from the city for $800, have been staying there for a year, they said.


LOTM - lets see, they had no occupany permit. they did , however, have rocks, nail, slingshots, whips, and torches. the very kinds of things that have been used as weapons at "protests" in Seattle and Washington.

McCarthyism my foot.

And of course it was covered in the mainstream media. It was covered, as it should have been, in the St Louis Post Dispatch. It was NOT picked up by the national media - as there was no reason to - there was no mccarthyism. Just law enforcement.

And we're supposed to get upset.

based on that, im not going to bother looking up the other 2.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:57 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious


I don't know about indymedia. Democracy Now isn't a source of left wing propaganda. It's just a non-mainstream news source. So you hear some things there that you don't hear mainstream.


Indymedia is an anarchist media source. My big problem with Indymedia is they have had a history of not doing their fact checking.

DemocracyNow! is a left-wing news source. I'm not terribly happy with them either, as the host has a habit of soft-peddling leftist guests while hard-balling right-wing guests. Now, there are certainly many right-wing hosts whodo the same thing, but I expect better from my side. It is a good source of news that the mainstream refuses to cover, however.

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Cool  Old Post 22-05-2003 02:58 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Yeah, weapons out the kazoo.
Maybe it IS like Texas, Sava.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:00 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Police attacking the left across Midwest Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Ned
OK, did they arrest the commies because they were violating a condemnation order - a form of trespassing?


If the police showed up at your house with a building inspector, who declared your home condemned so the police could enter right then and there, would you be a tresspasser?

LotM, you don't need a permit to occupy your own building.

Lorizael is offline Lorizael

Prince
The Cult Wins
Sep 2001
time: 00:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Fez
Well Chegitz, 1) I am lazy and 2) I didn't start this thread.


Too lazy to look for yourself, but not too lazy to insult people you don't know while adding nothing to a debate. Hmm.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:02 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lorizael


Too lazy to look for yourself, but not too lazy to insult people you don't know while adding nothing to a debate. Hmm.


This is Giancarlo you are talking to who here... You know how I am.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Similar devices were used as weapons in large-scale demonstrations at international conferences in Seattle and Washington, D.C., officials said.


BS!

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:03
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quote:
Welcome to real McCarthyism.


Anyone see the irony of this happening in Democrat strongholds?

Ned is offline Ned
Prince
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Oct 1999
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:04
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Che, why do peaceful protesters need sling shots, rocks and rusty nails?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
BS!
You quote indymedia at us and have the balls to shout BS at another person? I salute you!

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:06 Visit SlowwHand's homepage!
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Because they're dumbasses, Ned. What did you think ?

Sava is offline Sava
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Democrats are just as bad as Republicans... this is why the whole "black and white" "with us or against us" cowboy mentality is dangerous...

Fez: Thanks... you've provided some useful info in helping me understand you a little better.

LOTM: Yes, we should rip up the constitution and violate civil rights because they had rocks, sling shots, etc... but yet... we should legalize assault rifles...

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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Dec 2000
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:08
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


If the police showed up at your house with a building inspector, who declared your home condemned so the police could enter right then and there, would you be a tresspasser?

LotM, you don't need a permit to occupy your own building.


so did they have a deed? or would holding that violate anarchist principles? If i lived in what had been an abandoned house, which i had paid $800 for, and for which i had no written title, and which i kept in such a state as to illicit complaints from the neighbors and to be condemned, I would expect something to happen.

If illinois law allows me a fixed period of time from condemnation to when im expected to vacate a residence, and the police did not allow me that time i would file suit for wrongful arrest. If Illinois had no such fixed period, id have no case.

I guess im just a law focused liberal, i dont have the superior insight to be a true leftist.

I'm also curious why your sources didnt mention the weapons found. The St. Louis Post Dispatch managed to give BOTH sides of the story, while DemocracyNow only gave the spins of one side. Perhaps that gives you a clue why some of us like to see things from the oft derided "corporate media"

SlowwHand is offline SlowwHand
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Assault rifles have better range for picking off protestors carrying sling shots.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:09 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Notice what LotM chose not to include, "for legth."

quote:
Matt LeMieux, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Eastern Missouri, said, "I think if the police are going to conduct searches and arrest people, it ought to be based on the conduct of what a person is doing now. But what they're doing is pre-emptively trying to arrest people. It's a bad and unconstitutional policy."

He called the housing inspections "a trick" to get in without a warrant and suggested police should have worked with protesters instead of antagonizing them.


[url=http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/news/CA79873CDD7A926886256D29001A8078?OpenDocument&highlight=2%2Canarchist%2Cpolice%2Craid& headline=Arrests+and+weapons+allegations+spark+act
ivists'+anger]Arrests and weapons allegations spark activists' anger[/url]
City officials went into a tizzy over mere anarchists

Last edited by chegitz guevara on 22-05-2003 at 03:15

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 22-05-2003 03:12 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Che, why do peaceful protesters need sling shots, rocks and rusty nails?


You need rocks and nails (no mention of rusty in the article) for rehabbing a building. Sling-shots are usefull for quikly disposing of tear gas canisters, since the police have had a nasty habit of attacking peaceful demonstrations for the past four years.

lord of the mark is offline lord of the mark
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quote:
Originally posted by Sava
Democrats are just as bad as Republicans... this is why the whole "black and white" "with us or against us" cowboy mentality is dangerous...

Fez: Thanks... you've provided some useful info in helping me understand you a little better.

LOTM: Yes, we should rip up the constitution and violate civil rights because they had rocks, sling shots, etc... but yet... we should legalize assault rifles...



I am not in favor of legalizing assault rifles.

As far as i can tell the police were merely enforcing housing law. Maybe they were using a technicality. you want to go around doing radical things, it behooves you to stay on the right side of technicalities.

And given the record of use of such things at anti-globalization protests, (at which they have been used to violate the civil rights of people trying to go to work) the fact that a group of people was gathering them in anticipation of such a protest seems a legitimate concern for law enforcement.

you guys seem to think that freedom means giving the revolution a fighting chance. This liberal says Uh-uh.

Ned is offline Ned
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Che, I will agree with you to the extent that the police action went beyond enforcing the law. I am not sure whether an illegal motive makes a lawful act illegal.

Constitutional lawyers: any case law on this?

realpolitic is offline realpolitic
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The "legitimate" media in America during the war concetrated on what the Marines ate for breakfast, resucing Jessica Lynch and sandstorms. Interesting and fairly truthful, but not relevent to the question of why we needed to kill in a war. Gone were the arguments our allies made as to why we should wait, what evidence there were of WMDs etc.

According to The Republic Magazine, the only other country whose people supported the US invasion was Israel, which says our media might be saying something other than what the rest of the worlds' is.

If you want legitimate sources try

www.buzzflash.com

They use papers from around the world, and as well as the info in the US that gets buried behind the stories on the Marines' breakfasts.

Also,

www.michealmoore.com

He is a liberal pundit, whose straightforward approach won him an Academy Award for Bowling for Columbine. If you want to find out about violence in the US, or why our attitude differs from the rest of the world see that movie.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...ct
ivists
'+anger

Sava is offline Sava
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LOTM: I apologize for my post being worded the way it was... I have a limited command of the English language. I did not mean to put words in your mouth about the assault rifle issue.

As for protests... the Contsitution grants the freedom to assemble... I don't recall the amendment that says people have the right to get to work in a timely fashion.

atawa is offline atawa
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quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
And given the record of use of such things at anti-globalization protests, (at which they have been used to violate the civil rights of people trying to go to work) the fact that a group of people was gathering them in anticipation of such a protest seems a legitimate concern for law enforcement.


Concern yes, but not the right to attack someones home with a bullshit warrant imo.

 
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