22-05-2003 18:18									#1
	Palestinian Weapons Ship Caught(yet again) Full PM-box? Change here!

A ship carrying weapons to the Pal territories was caught yesterday by the Israeli Naval Commandos.

According to Arab networks, at least one Hizballah man was on board.

It got publicized and uncensored only now, so there isnt much more to tell at the moment.

	22-05-2003 18:26									#2
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The Palestinian leadership isn't concerned with peace at all. Even if Arafat (the biggest terrorist) leaves or dies, whoever takes his place will still be a terror-supporter. Even the new leader is just a puppet. And it seems like every time Sharon bites his lip and withdraws from an occupied area, a rash of suicide bombers attack. IMO... Terrorism is engrained in the Palestinian culture. It's either a case of clear support or apathetic support (like the Saudis with Al Qaeda). The terrorism "culture" doesn't care about peace, they just want the annihilation of Israel.

	22-05-2003 18:32									#3
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Congrats Eli, you beat me to it!


That's interesting, I hope more details will soon emerge.

	22-05-2003 18:38									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Congrats Eli, you beat me to it!

I was with the finger on the "submit thread" button since 22 hours ago when the rumors began to spread.

	22-05-2003 18:43									#5
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Azazel, Eli, Siro: What do you guys think of my opinion of the Pals? I have no first-hand experience. I've never been to the region. All I know is what I get from news sources. Am I wrong?

	22-05-2003 18:51									#6
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Sava, I haven't been to the region eithier, but I agree with your analysis.

I think that it will take at least a generation of peace to change the Pal culture. IMO, the only solution is to have a buffer zone between the two countries (if we actually ever get two countries) that is patrolled by third party non regional states.

Of course, the problem will never be solved until all Arab governments finally come to the realization that Israel not only has a right to exist, but that it will exist no matter what the Arab viewpoint is. The Israeli's, for their part, need to recognize that the Pals must have an increase in their living standards and conditions before they will be able to begin to change their culture.

	22-05-2003 18:59									#7
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quote: Azazel, Eli, Siro: What do you guys think of my opinion of the Pals? I have no first-hand experience. I've never been to the region. All I know is what I get from news sources. Am I wrong?

Personally, I think that "Terrorism" is not ingrained in the palestinian culture. But their culture is way too shauvenistic and "respect"-dominated. Revenge is a very strong driving force, to gain "Honor" and **** like that.

Israel has been winning, so they want revenge, and a very large part of the population has absolutely no problem with using horrendous means like suicide bombers targetting civilian populations.

A palestinian leader that would see that only a peaceful resolution guranteeing lasting co-existance of both states is viable will have to be very strong to break through the cycle of violence, esp. the enormous parts of palestinian society that fully support it.

	22-05-2003 19:07									#8
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quote: The Palestinian leadership isn't concerned with peace at all. Even if Arafat (the biggest terrorist) leaves or dies, whoever takes his place will still be a terror-supporter.

I don't know much about this , either. But, IMO, arafat has to go. Either die off, go into exile.... anything. I think he is the single biggest obstacle to working the roadmap.

	22-05-2003 19:08									#9
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hi ,

wow

have a nice day

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	22-05-2003 19:14									#10
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Panag :

I heard that the amount of weaponry on board of the Abu Hasan(the ship) is similar in size to Santorini, not Karine A and it's a big difference.

	22-05-2003 19:26									#11
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I think what concerns me the most is that for every one of those weapons, there is a person willing to pull the trigger and kill civilians.

	22-05-2003 19:31									#12
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That's a good point, Sava. I wouldn't mind having a palestinian army with tanks and whatever, if we had peace. I think it's condescending of us to demand any such thing.


Besides, it's not like they would be much of a challenge.

	22-05-2003 19:37									#13
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Eli, I want to post this on another board, got a news article about it?

	22-05-2003 19:40									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Sava I think what concerns me the most is that for every one of those weapons, there is a person willing to pull the trigger and kill civilians.

I wish it was like this.

The problem is that for every one of those weapons there are 10 people willing to pull the trigger.

-

In today's situation, Hamas' bottleneck is not recruiting suicide bombers, but constructing the explosive belts.

	22-05-2003 19:50									#15
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Eli, Do we know where this ship sailed from? What country did the weapons have "end use" certificates for?

	22-05-2003 19:53									#16
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quote: In today's situation, Hamas' bottleneck is not recruiting suicide bombers, but constructing the explosive belts.

If there are so many willing to do this, I fail to see how this hasn't become a cultural problem for the Pal's.

	22-05-2003 20:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Eli, Do we know where this ship sailed from? What country did the weapons have "end use" certificates for?

It's an egyptian ship that went from Alexandria to Beirut and then on course to Gaza.

	22-05-2003 20:12									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Eli It's an egyptian ship that went from Alexandria to Beirut and then on course to Gaza.

Would this implicate the Syrians in being the initial supplier of the weapons, or given the Hezbollah involvement, the Iranians? Even if it is the Iranians, wouldn't the arms have had to pass through Syrian controlled territory?

	22-05-2003 20:18									#19
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Does Gaza have a port? I thought it didn't.

	22-05-2003 20:24									#20
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Plato: Hezbollah operatives were on board.

Gsmoove: Even if it did, they wouldn't be stupid enough to ship it through the harbour! They drop it off-shore, in floating plastic containers, and then, boats pick it up. boats are very difficult to intercept since there are loads of them fishing.

	22-05-2003 20:25									#21
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There is a harbor, but nothing can get close to it without Israel noticing.

Their method is throwing the weapons to the sea near the shore. Later Pal fishermen raise the crates and bring them to the strip itself.

	22-05-2003 20:28									#22
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Eli: they completed the port? I thought it would be a shitload of work, being such an unsuitable location. ( Just like Ashdod. )

	22-05-2003 20:33									#23
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Not a real big port like in Ashdod (your feeble Haifan port is not even a worthy contender ), but a small harbor, docks, or whatever you want to call it must exist for all the fishing boats to function, no?

	22-05-2003 20:37									#24
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quote: ), but a small harbor, docks, or whatever you want to call it must exist for all the fishing boats to function, no?

A Marina?

	22-05-2003 20:39									#25
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Where's the :whocares: smiley?

	22-05-2003 20:46									#26
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Sigh. One step forward, three steps back.

	22-05-2003 20:58									#27
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Where was the step forward?

	22-05-2003 21:06									#28
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gsmoove, so Hizbollah is no problem?

Since these arms came from "Syria," I think they will have some explaining to do not only to Israel, but to the United States.

	22-05-2003 21:06									#29
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=86672

	23-05-2003 00:59									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ned gsmoove, so Hizbollah is no problem? Since these arms came from "Syria," I think they will have some explaining to do not only to Israel, but to the United States.

Anybody seen a Syrian take on these events?