25-05-2003 04:28									#31
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Yak 3:



Yak 9:



Certainly not the greatest looking and definitely not the best performing, but it redeemed that with the sheer number produced.

	25-05-2003 04:36									#32
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Got to go with the Spitfire.

Whenever the Biggin Hill airshow is on they always have some on display.

	25-05-2003 04:38									#33
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Fez:

thanks for being a sweetheart

not that bad looking... looks kind of like a mix of a corsair and a spitfire... the front end looks like a spitfire while the large tail is corsair like.

but the Yak wasnt the most produced warplane of world war 2, was it? i thought the Messerschmitt 109 had that title.

	25-05-2003 04:41									#34
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Sweet heart? LOL...

Well the Russians always had the sheer number.. but never the best tactics. Many of the Yaks were shot down. Yes, I always thought the Yaks were produced in greater amounts. Especially on the final pushes to Berlin they needed quite a few of them.

I never did like them that much... but they are okay.

	25-05-2003 04:48									#35
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Fez:

i swore reading that the Me 109 was the most produced fighter... i remember so clearly because i was shocked that the US or USSR didn't produce the most produced plane... Germany which was outproduced in almost every type of weapon did make the most produced airplane of the war... of course, the me 109 started production in 1936 if i remember right and there's probably no other plane of the war that had such a long life-span.

	25-05-2003 04:55									#36
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Albert:

Yaks 9 produced: 16,769 (All models, source)
P-51s produced: 7,956 (All models, source)
BF-109 produced: 35,000 (Source
Republic P-47 Thunderbolt produced: 15,677 (source)

Well you are right. But the Americans did produce more overall of different types in total. More capacity to do so.

Also I can't believe the Thunderbolt was left off the poll...

	25-05-2003 05:37									#37
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American planes and their six machine guns... why did the Pentagon decide against having canons anyway?

	25-05-2003 05:43									#38
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it's amazing how hard it is to find pictures of Japanese fighters...

but while looking, i found this gem...




by the way, why did jap planes have such unfierce names like "Violet Lightning", "Flying Swallow", "Moonlight", "Peregrine Falcon", and "Gale"?


thanks

	25-05-2003 05:50									#39
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Still can't believe you people left out the Typhoon. It's clear lines make it a beautiful aircraft.

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	25-05-2003 05:57									#40
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The spitfire is a sleek beauty ... the Mustang is a close second for me (tho my favorite fighter of teh era overall)... it reminds me of the 60s mustang cars for some reason...

	25-05-2003 05:58									#41
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look at this thing...



called the "Magnificent Lightning"

	25-05-2003 05:58									#42
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the Corsair is pretty cool lookin too, as id the P-38, which has alwasy reminded me of the A-10 thunderbolt ("warthog") for some reason.

	25-05-2003 06:05									#43
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My uncle survived an attack by Russian fighters in the Finnish Winter War because they were so noisy. He was a volonteer, somewhat like the Syrian Jiihad fighters in Iraq. Only difference was that volontery freedom fighters back then were never called terrorists, at least not in the Nordic countries.

He and his buddies heard the planes long before they arrived, so they left the camp and ran into the woods to hide. The Russian aircraft sprayed the camp with machine guns and left, but didn't kill a single soldier. My uncle came back after the war with a rucksack full of bullet holes to show everyone proof of combat. He never told us if he actually faced and killed any Russians, but I think that is an extremely sensitive question. Many soldiers deny the whole combat situation in the process of healing their mental wounds, while others brag widely to heal the same mental wounds. A third kind shut up to hide the fact that they were jerks who never even faced the enemy. I don't know which of those 3 kinds my uncle was, but the bullet holes in the rucksack made him my personal WW2 hero (as if there ever were heroes in wars... )

	25-05-2003 06:07									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer American planes and their six machine guns... why did the Pentagon decide against having canons anyway?

Because volume of fire was seen as more important than caliber of fire. And at the speeds of dog fighting, they can make some good arguements. For interceptors tho, large calibers are superior, IMHO.

And, if this were a bomber beauty contest.... I've always had a place in my heart for the B-24 Mitchel. It was the first model airplane I built all by myself, and it really is a nice looking craft.

	25-05-2003 06:55									#45
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Bah, Dora wins hands down:

The FW 190 D9:

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	25-05-2003 06:57									#46
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Bah.. if I could I change my vote to the Republic Thunderbolt. It is better.

	25-05-2003 06:58									#47
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I'm surprised to see the Zero getting so many votes; after all it is a pretty utilitarian looking plane.

	25-05-2003 06:59									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Bah, Dora wins hands down: The FW 190 D9:

What is that pic from? IL Sturmovik?

	25-05-2003 07:00									#49
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In the beauty contest, I would vote for the ME-2?? German jet fighter, which name I can't remember this early in the morning.

	25-05-2003 07:07									#50
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The Zero was very slick looking... utilitarian-looking planes would be the early American Navy planes like the Brewster Buffolo and Grumman Wildcat... those things looked like stubby chunks of metal with wings attached... they were also both very tough planes especially the Wildcat... Zeros had a tendency to burst into flames after a single hit to the fuel tanks or engine. I'm sure there's dozens of pics on the internet of Wildcats that returned from sorties with half their wing missing and dozens of bulletholes all along the fuselage. those were ugly utilitarian planes. the Zero was sleek

	25-05-2003 07:09									#51
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Yep, but the Zero was beautiful

	25-05-2003 07:20									#52
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Doesn't the Buffalo rank among the worst aircraft ever built?

	25-05-2003 07:37									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kramerman Because volume of fire was seen as more important than caliber of fire. And at the speeds of dog fighting, they can make some good arguements. For interceptors tho, large calibers are superior, IMHO.

Two main factors for the US were the number of rounds carried, and muzzle velocity, both of which were critical to deflection shooting.

	25-05-2003 07:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What is that pic from? IL Sturmovik?

I don't know, I just snagged it off of Google. I've never come across any pics in books or otherwise of the Dora-9, although I do have some illustrations of it in a German book I have on the FW-190 series. I'm too lazy to hunt the book down and scan the illustrations, though.

	25-05-2003 07:41									#55
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Agathon:

yeah it was like a flying chunk of metal... the Wildcat wasn't much better but at least it was tough as ****. they both look ugly and unflyable but somehow managed at least alright.

amazingly, the Hellcat looked exactly like the wildcat except somehow the hellcat could actually outmaneuver zeros... don't know how they did it without changing the design

	25-05-2003 07:47									#56
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i guess another reason why we didnt use cannons was because we never had to combat heavy bombers... machine guns work good enough on fighters...

	25-05-2003 07:55									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Agathon: yeah it was like a flying chunk of metal... the Wildcat wasn't much better but at least it was tough as ****. they both look ugly and unflyable but somehow managed at least alright. amazingly, the Hellcat looked exactly like the wildcat except somehow the hellcat could actually outmaneuver zeros... don't know how they did it without changing the design

The Buffalo was underpowered and obsolete by the time it encountered zeros.

The Wildcat was actually very decent to fly, which was important for the US at the time, with a lot of inexperienced pilots being created as fast as possible. Nothing wrong with the plane design - it traded durability and endurance (thus weight) for the maneuverability and climb rate of the Rei-sen (zero), which gained it's attributes at the cost of radios, armor and self-sealing fuel tanks.

A Wildcat had no chance in a one on one fight against Zeros, but in two on two or four on four or larger fights, the Wildcats were able to more than hold their own against the A6M2 and A6M3 models by adapting their fighting tactics to the nature of the aircraft.

The Hellcat couldn't ever outmaneuver any model of Zero or George unless at speeds approaching 300 knots, which was way faster than air combat maneuvering speed at the time - if you bounced a Zero from above, maneuverability didn't matter. Get down under 200 knots, and the Zero or George would own the Hellcat's ass any time, every time, unless the Hellcat got help in a hurry. US pilots simply learned to stay in a flight regime that favored their aircraft, and to avoid the flight regimes that favored enemy aircraft, or die.

The Hellcat did have substantially more horsepower for little extra weight, and better control surfaces, so it was a bit more maneuverable than the F4F3 model Wildcat, but not a lot - the difference was primarily in speed and rate of climb, but you still didn't want to take your Hellcat into a climbing contest with any model Zero, at least if you didn't want to end up buried in it.

The Corsair was the first aircraft that could really outperform the Zero all around, except below 150 knots, but with all that power, there was just no reason to go that slow. The only trouble was the Corsair was a lethal, unforgiving ***** to fly, with a nasty habit of rolling inverted on landing, and doing this cute little roll-spin-stall-roll thing on takeoff if you didn't manage the torque and initial angle of climb. One of its nicknames was the "Ensign eliminator"

	25-05-2003 07:59									#58
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Does anyone remember the Northrop P-61 - it was a night fighter so I suppose it qualifies.

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	25-05-2003 08:25									#59
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MtG:

I was under the impression that HellCats were able to outmaneuver Zeros but i guess not... i guess it is because of the "turkey shots" where Hellcat pilots shot down dozens of Japanese easily with barely any losses but i guess such sucesses were mainly due to tactics not the maneuverability of the Hellcat itself. makes sense.

but with the corsair, why are the most maneuverable planes universally always the hardest to pilot? I mean the Sopwith Camel and Fokker Triplane back in the first world war were also extremely maneuverable but killed plenty of new pilots especially the Camel. is there something about the structure that provides maneuverability that also makes them hard to fly?

	25-05-2003 08:25									#60
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I vote for ZERO!!!!!