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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:28
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re Incensity build...
During discussions in chat, an idea was hatched to build 2 regular mercs (1 in Poly, 1 in Incensity). Both would complete in 4 turns. That would give us 4 mercs. 1 can go north barb farming/promotion hunting, 1 can go SE for the same reason. That leaves 1 in the main city grid, and 1 in Tripoli. The 2 in the city grid would act as back up for the 2 out hunting, and could take over hunting once either hunter gains promotion. I should also mention that there is a strong possibility of barb farming to the SW. In short, the more mercs ready for the task the better (to a point).
Meanwhile, E_T had planned to build a vet merc in Mingapulco as soon as the barracks is complete. That would be changed to 3 vet warriors (same shield cost). Our ability to build vet warriors dissappears as soon as we connect the iron, unless we play the road cutting game. Also, Mingapulco is at 5spt during this period (perfect for warriors) and moves to 6 spt later (wasteful for warriors, but perfect for mercs/swords).
The reasons I see to do this, besides those mentioned above, are:
1. A barracks too soon in Incensity costs gold per turn to maintain. This gold is not well spent if the city takes too long to build units. Also, it is highly possible that a galley from Incensity may be desirable. A barracks is completely wasted gold during the period of that build.
2. With enough mercs we can make them largely pay for themselves (to a point) by speeding barb farming.
3. Mercs are much safer than warriors when barb farming, and thus the prospects of them surviving, gaining promotion, and getting gold are higher. Would we rather have safe vets for upgrade to swords, and safe regs out hunting promotion; or safe vets that do not upgrade, and regs at risk?
4. Having 3 additional vet warriors for upgrade to swords accomplishes 2 things. First, we are safer should CDG decide to move north early. A vet sword wins 73.6% vs a regular immortal standing on jungle; 59.9% vs a vet immortal. A regular sword's numbers are 58.4% and 43.3% respectively. Those are major differences, therefore I do not feel that 2 vet warrior/swords are sufficient for the short term.
4a. The second thing 3 additional vet warriors give us is a greater stealth advantage longer term vs CDG. Assuming that we proceed according to the AltSP we will want to keep just ahead of CDG for as long as possible, then pour it on in as short a period as possible to gain a massive advantage. The more warriors available for upgrade during the later stage of the plan means that CDG can feel more comfortable for a longer period of time, and we have a better chance to catch them unawares with fewer forces.
These are the main reasons I would like to build 2 regular mercs soonest (4 turns) and 3 vet warriors soonest (before the iron is roaded).
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BigFree
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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
By the time Incensity finishes the Barracks, it will be at 4 SPT (5 SPT if working a mined hill), which is currently what Mingapulco is at. I fail to see how building the Barracks "wastes gold," if it is maintaining the same SPT as Mingapulco, which you have no concerns with. |
Well Trip:
First the Barracks will be completed on turn 68, while Incensity is still a size 2. Incensity grows to size 3 on turn 71. Then it will be capable of producing 5 spt.
...it "wastes gold" if Incensity is used for a Galley.
...it "wastes gold" if Incensity cannot produce Vets at a reasonable rate.
Let's use 3 spt to build our NM(cost=30) for the first three turns after the Barracks are produced, since it will be at a size 2 then.
That's 9 shields, then add an additional 6 turns (at 4 spt) in order to build the first NM Vet in Incensity. That's 9 turns to build the first Vet NM after the Barracks is finnished.
Add those 9 turns to the 11 turns it will take to build the Barracks for a total of 20 turns (or 19 turns if Incensity goes to 5 spt).
We have 16 shields now in the box.
With 2 spt for 2 turns it gives us 20 in the box.
then 4 turns at 3 spt to build the NM.
That's 6 turns from now till another NM.
If Incensity builds a Barracks first then a NM and then another NM; that second NM will be ready in 28 turns from now, if Incenstity goes at 4 spt turn in order to grow faster. If it goes for 5 spt then the second NM will be ready 26 turns from now.
If Incensity build a NM first, then a Barracks and then another NM that second NM will be ready in 29 turns from now in Incensity goes for 4 spt or in 26 turns if it goes for 5 spt.
Conclusion:
code:
Plan 1 Plan 2
turn 6 1st NM turn 11 Barracks
turn 20 Barracks turn 20 1st NM
turn 26 2nd NM turn 26 2nd NM
cost in gold=6 cost in gold=15
The Second and all subsequent NM's or Swords out of Incensity will be prodcuced just a fast if the Barracks goes first or the NM goes first. The question is whether or not having a Reg NM 6 turns from now is better than having a Vet NM 19 or 20 turns from now.
I would like to have the earlier NM. If he or another NM gains Vet status within 20 turns, then we have saved 9 gold. Plus we will have likely been able to find more Barb camps out there in a shorter period of time.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:28
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O.k., I've run some numbers for Incensity
First off, Having Worker Panag finish mining where he is, then moving NE (9) to Incensity #17 (poly #19) to road and mine the last grassland tile. He will then move SE (3) to the Hill that is at Poly #7 (Incensity #16) and road and mine. AFTER that hill is roaded and mined, AND with 3 pop, Incensity will have 5SPT but very slow growth...
Now, while working to get to size 3 and while we wait for the Hill to be mined, there is only a 2 TURN DIFFERENCE between building a barracks and an NM.
From What I can see, We can have the barracks, then 2 NM's, 1 Worker, then 2 NM's before turn 100. The city can do a cycle of 3 NM's and 1 worker with no problems.
MoI E_T
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:28
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O.k. this is the deal.
[2nd EDIT] I still have some things wrong and will fix them shortly
[/edit]
[3rd Edit] This is the final time.... [/edit]
If we want 5 SPT from Incensity, then 2 hills are required to be mined.
I have 2 scenarios for Incensity (remember, an NM can be a swordsman, same sheild cost):
#1 Barracks first.
Turn 67 - Barracks Built
Turn 75 - NM Built
Turn 83 - NM Built
Turn 86 - Worker Built
Turn 93 - NM Built
Turn 99 - NM Built
and an NM every 6 turns afterwards
#2 NM then Galley first (or NM)
Turn 63 - NM Built
Turn 67 - MapMaking Researched
Turn 72 - Galley built
Turn 80 - Barracks Built
Turn 89 - NM built
Turn 91 - Worker Built
Turn 97 - NM built
Turn 103 - NM built and every 67 turns afterwards
As you can see, both cases are the same after turn 80., just the timing is a little different.
I favor #2 somewhat with a Galley, as it will still be a while before HorseCity will build it's Galley (Turn 84 of 85). And I do favor that we build a barracks in Incensity. With the galley first (will have to have a NM prebuild before MM is done), we can have that galley past the FoW to the west before the other galley in Horsecity is built.
[EDIT] a reminder, that working both Hills will not allow Incensity to grow beyond size 3
MoI E_T
Last edited by E_T on 26-05-2003 at 01:22
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Dominae
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I believe connecting our Iron is not a good idea at this time.
Leaving it unconnected opens up the ability to build a military unit that does not cost 30 Shields and that we actually plan to use (Archers are out), namely the Warrior. This will be a very useful build for the two Granary cities, who need something to do while their pop increases.
Dominae
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panag
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MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Oct 2000
time: 07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
I believe connecting our Iron is not a good idea at this time.
Leaving it unconnected opens up the ability to build a military unit that does not cost 30 Shields and that we actually plan to use (Archers are out), namely the Warrior. This will be a very useful build for the two Granary cities, who need something to do while their pop increases.
Dominae |
hi ,
 , a couple notes with that , ....
we could use the shields after mining and the money after roading , .....
we dont know what surprises lay around the corner , its better to prepare for it now and link it then later , ....
it could vanish and we could have the risk of not having used it , ..... if it does go away the units that are being build can still be finished , ....
NYE , great naval idea 
have a nice day
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Dominae
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Assuming said Worker does other things instead of just waiting on the Iron Hill, it will take 4 turns to connect the Iron. Splitting hairs, I know, but it's a number we should all keep in mind.
Dominae
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Dominae
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Then, when we disconnect the Iron, we'll be destroying the Mine too.
Is there any particular reason we want the Iron hooked up immediately?
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by notyoueither
To build some vet swords, since we lack the gold to upgrade all the warriors we have now, or will have? |
Are any of our Barracks cities producing 6 Shields per turn? Only then is it efficient to start producing Vet. Swordsmen.
Dominae
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Dominae
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Can we build a small group of Vet. Warriors now, then just connect our Iron when we're ready to build Swordsmen? Since war does not appear imminent, I think we have some leeway here. Ideally, we will not ever need to disconnect our Iron after it has been connected at all.
I suggest we build 8-10 more Vet. Warriors while the Iron is unconnected, then connect it and be done with it. This should leave enough time for our military production cities to grow big enough to be producing 5-6 Shields per turn, which makes for Merc. or Swordsmen production without waste.
Dominae
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25-05-2003 06:38
We would actually, timewise, be able to build MORE swords/med inf by NOT connecting it yet, as paradoxal as that may seem.
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