26-05-2003 02:04									#1
	Road map: stupidest peace plan ever Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

After some arguement Israeli ministers agreeded to accept american peace plan known as "Road map". Also they asked USA for 14 additions to the plan. As it seen from TV news nobady in goverment hope, that plan will work. Most of them say something about: "Yes, we must support USA, but we know, that the plan will fail. Our main task and main purpose of the accepting road map is to show world community, that palestinians can not deal with terror and can not accept road of peace. We are not afraid of all duties that we took on Israel, because Abu-Mazen's Palestine will quit road map before us". According to the survey most Israelis do not support road map. Even Israeli arabs do not support thus plan. So we see pre-electional political game of US president and also way of justification american anti-Iran acts.

	26-05-2003 02:06									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

'morrow, I'll answer you.

	26-05-2003 02:09									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

What is tommorow? I see, that your post is timed 00:06 Israeli time...

	26-05-2003 02:11									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yaani, today.

	26-05-2003 02:11									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The Bushies will most iekly change very little of the roadmap. They are not the type to take suggestions, specially from those inferior to them (as surely the PM of Israel is to the President of the US).

As a plan, this is one fo the very few Bush acts I support. I think if the admin. stuck to it, it would at least lead to some movement. But I don;t think the BUshies will want to spend the political capital to do it.

	26-05-2003 03:11									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

as far as I've heard, "not a comma is to be changed". This road map is highly favourable of the Israelis, and for them not to go along with its EVERY word would be an insult to the Palestinians.

	26-05-2003 03:22									#7
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by orange as far as I've heard, "not a comma is to be changed". This road map is highly favourable of the Israelis, and for them not to go along with its EVERY word would be an insult to the Palestinians.

How is it"highly favorable of the Israelis"?

You're right though that the road map will not be changed, but not for the reasons you mentionned. It won't be changed because the Palestinians have said that they won't accept any changes, and the West won't do anything to upset the Palestinians.

The truth is that this Road Map is complely unrealistic and naive. For example, it calls for a completely democratic Palestinian State that is tolerant, respectful of human rights and religious freedom, and completely free of any ties with terror groups. Anyone who thinks that is gonna happen, there is a bridge over the Tigris river, I'd like to sell to you!

	26-05-2003 03:25									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Road map: stupidest peace plan ever

And what have you got on the table then?

	26-05-2003 06:26									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

After going through this forum several times, I know the true meaning of leftist incompetence.

If the plan sucks, why don't you try to come up with something better? Come on.. bring it on! Tell me something better! I am pissed off because you never have anything at all. You denounce that Bush sucks, but you can't even come up with anything for your part.

Quit complaining, sitdown, be quiet, and wait.

Orange this goes for you too. The road map favors the Israelis? Since when? Bush is saying both have the right to exist fairly.

I am sick and tired of the complaining that occurs in this forum. It is the same old story.

Bush does this, Bush does that.. why don't you get overselves.. and suck up to the fact that your little whining will not make the situation better nor do you have a plan to make anything better.

I hope all of you complainers stay out of politics and diplomacy.

	26-05-2003 06:38									#10
	Put an end to popups!

The road map may suck, but it's the best we have for now. It is a jam full of concessions towards all the participants : Israel, Palestine, Europe, Russia, UN, and of course the US, so of course it is far from being fully satisfying.

BUT, it is the first time since the start of the intifada that all these actors are trying to come up with a plan together. The road map by itself will prbably not bring peace. But if it manages to get Israeli and Palestinians to negociate, with the monitoring of a unanimous international community, it can be the right start.

	26-05-2003 07:48									#11
	Remove this text

at Fez! muxec, the diplomat, as leftists?

Sorry Fez, look at who agrees with you and who doesn't....


Don;t worry, your head won;t explode from your little world being turned upside down.

	26-05-2003 07:51									#12
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Okay Fez, here's the Chegitz Peace Plan A for Israel and Palestine.


Annex the territories and make the Palestinians full citizens. Now you both have a country together. Make it work.

	26-05-2003 07:53									#13
	Remove this text

quote: Make it work.

	26-05-2003 07:58									#14
	Re: Road map: stupidest peace plan ever Tired of ads?

I can't wait to see the Comic Store guy from the Simpsons with a tee-shirt that says this! ^^

	26-05-2003 08:00									#15
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: But if it manages to get Israeli and Palestinians to negociate,

I thought part of the point of this new peace plan was that it mostly bypassed negotiating between the Israelis and Palestinians, with the quartet getting each side to take actions towards the goals independent of the other side.

And yes, the (7!) page roadmap relies more on optimism than on realities, I fear.

	26-05-2003 08:05									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yeah, like thinking the Sharon government will ever put a stop to "natural growth" of the settlements...
silly Bush.

	26-05-2003 08:06									#17
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by GePap Yeah, like thinking the Sharon government will ever put a stop to "natural growth" of the settlements... silly Bush.

Cause Sharon has never dismantled Settlements in the past... Silly Gepap.

	26-05-2003 08:42									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Come on folks.. CHILL... it seems to be getting a TAD personal.

	26-05-2003 09:27									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I still think the hardest part will be the palestinians to stop the terror attacks, step one is the one that will fail

	26-05-2003 09:35									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

H Tower -

That's EXACTLY why it favours the Israelis. Palestinians AND Israelis who don't want peace will simply continue the violence (albeit, moreso the pro-Palestinian Arabs, but that's beside the point) with NO restrictions made on settlement by Israel. How can that be anything BUT pro-Israeli. It's an open invitation to settle the West Bank and Gaza since all the power from this peace plan is placed in the pocket of terrorists who wish to derail the peace process. Now they can easily do it at any time, regardless of how hard Palestinian officials try to crack down on it. How you can ask a state without boundaries or leadership to crack down on terrorism when the most powerful democracy in the world can barely do it effectively is beyond my comprehension.

	26-05-2003 09:37									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I cannot even begin to imagine a Palestinian state which isn't knee deep in terrorism. Everyone with any authority in Palestine has his autority because he has been a terrorist with the blood of innocents upon his hands.

There cannot possibly be peace as long as the murderer Arafat is in charge. He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he will reject peace.

	26-05-2003 11:20									#22
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I cannot even begin to imagine a Palestinian state which isn't knee deep in terrorism. Everyone with any authority in Palestine has his autority because he has been a terrorist with the blood of innocents upon his hands. There cannot possibly be peace as long as the murderer Arafat is in charge. He has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he will reject peace.

As Panag and many others have noted, you don't negotiate with terrorists.

However, if you consider Arafat's position, Sharon is as big a terrorist. (Sabrah, Shatilla).

Calling each other labels and using that as an excuse to kill each other isn't the way forward.

Getting some sort of long term goal - an independent Palestine and the freedom for both Israelis and Arabs to live without fear - at least it gives something for both sides to to aim for.

Instead of aiming at each other.

	26-05-2003 11:22									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Make it work.

Couldn't say it better.


As to the first post, I'll reply. Later.

	26-05-2003 12:26									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Yeah, like thinking the Sharon government will ever put a stop to "natural growth" of the settlements... silly Bush.

Unfortunately, the intifade stoped grows of settlements. Ariel (city counted as settlement by palestinians) stoped growing after Oct. 2000. It's very bad, because terrorist started to think, that they can achive something by terror. They realized this, when Israeli army went out of Lebanon.

I did not say "Bush sucks". Bush rocks, at least because of Iraqi freedom. But the curent plan is even worse, than Oslo agreement.

Everybody here realize, that palestinians can not fight terrorists for the same reason, that Luzhkow (major of Moscow) can not fight corruption. Yes, some palestinians are educated, but most of them are poorly educated people tyranized by Arafat, and they will be ****ed by Abu-Mazen. Dmocratic regime in Palestine is impossible, until USA tanks will be in.

First we (not Israeli people, but all the world) must bring them education and freedom of religion. Second: Israel must became democratic state. USA must demand freedom of religion in Israel. Third: Syria, Lebanon and Iraq must be liberated (by USA, of course) only after stoping terrorists' support we can have peace.

	26-05-2003 12:32									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Better a bad plan then no plan at all...

Idiots killing eachother...

I think (?) every religion strongly contempts taking fellow human's life, yet these bastards keep on doing it...

Well, hey will all burn in hell, if there is one.

	26-05-2003 12:49									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Why don't they build a wall?

quote: Well, hey will all burn in hell, if there is one.

Didn't somebody once write something that everybody goes to hell because all religions say that other religions are going to hell?

	26-05-2003 12:53									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Didn't somebody once write something that everybody goes to hell because all religions say that other religions are going to hell?

Philosophy...

	26-05-2003 14:15									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Why don't they build a wall?

Aren't they in the middle of such a project?

	26-05-2003 14:22									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Of cource they are building a wall, has anyone been able to miss that one?
When it comes to the building of the wall, I guess it's going as expected. The Israelis are so short of land that the space needed for the wall has to be taken from the palestinians. Bad luck for you towelheads, but that's done in order to reach peace.

	26-05-2003 14:24									#30
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

can we please refrain from tossing around "Towelhead" so liberally