28-05-2003 14:07									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

"You think there is a lack of dissidents in Iran?"

Where did I say that?

"Do you believe that "destabilization" actually means war?"

Where did I say that?

This strawmenbreeding is getting a bit overboard, don't you think?

	28-05-2003 14:09									#32
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I will stop parsing semantics with a lawyer.

Have your victory, Roland.

	28-05-2003 14:10									#33
	Full PM-box? Change here!

That's not a matter of victory, but I would find it refreshing for poly if for once, replies wouldn't be to strawmen.

	28-05-2003 14:24									#34
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Dissident you anti-Bush people are so silly and unimformed.

perhaps you should look in the mirror... mkay?

quote: Did you really think reform was happening in Iran? You just picked up on this story because it was against Bush.

As with the removal of Saddam... the idea is sound and good... the methods are what bothers everyone. I doubt Bush wants a full military operation, considering there isn't a large reserve of oil, and infrastructure that Halliburton could "rebuild". As with Iraq, it's likely Bush will make things worse than they are... for America and the native civilian population of the country in question.

quote: Before you say something I'm not a conservative mind you.

you are your own breed of... well... I'll keep this polite

quote: I feel that being too far to the right is just as bad as being too far to the left. It blinds you to the truth.

Coming from a Rush listener and devoted FoxNews viewer... Forgive me, but I doubt you know the "truth". Perhaps you should research an organization known as the America Enterprise Institute. It's really fascinating. A large number of current Bush cabinet members and deputy secretaries created this organization and in the later 90's and early in 2000, released their "new world order" where they detailed the Iraq war, how it should be fought, and then the reformation of the Arab world. Anybody who says 9-11 is the reason we are doing this is... well... wrong. The truth is... the war in Iraq, this new crap in Iran... is all part of a political agenda. The American people are paying for it. Not just through taxpayer money, but with their freedoms, and the lives of civilians. But let's leave civilians out of this discussion. It's obvious that many pro-Bushies care more about saving 10 cents on a gallon a gas then the lives of anyone living in the MidEast.

quote: The truth is there, if you put your political leanings away for a moment, you can find it.

The truth is, despite my political leanings, Bush is exploiting his power, the American people, and America's emotional patriotic feelings to execute his immoral foreign policy that was planned, well in advance, of his presidency. The man claims to be a "born-again" Christian, but actually brings shame to honest, moral Christians by associating himself with that group. He took an oath, and lied to himself, the American people, and God when he promised to protect America and uphold the Constitution. I expect politicians to be liars, cheats, and self-serving wh0res. But this man, Bush, takes the cake.

	28-05-2003 14:52									#35
	Inflate your Upload Space

You guys are all over-reacting. Check this out: White House following 'diplomatic course' with Iran

	28-05-2003 15:23									#36
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Cruddy What is even more surprising is that the inhabitants of said foreign power had a popular revolt to kick out the US 2 decades ago.

The Iraqis have started demanding the coalition troops to pull out already.

	28-05-2003 15:26									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: You guys are all over-reacting

How should one react to a belligerent foreign policy?

	28-05-2003 15:48									#38
	Remove this text

It may not be sheer stupidity, they may want a hostile Iran to keep up the unending war drive.

	28-05-2003 17:09									#39
	Suffering from ads?

Anybody remember the invasion of Afghanistan?

I thought not. Once there is a big enough outcry over Iran who will be bothering about Iraq. Iraq has already largely dropped out of the media (it overran their five minute attention span) so the big question is "where next" to convince the voters that the politicians are doing something and to draw attention away from past fvck ups.

One day I will try not to be so cynical - but not today.

	28-05-2003 17:13									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I seen too much over reacting statements made by the leftists here. It has grown tiring. Are you people ever going to do anything different?

	28-05-2003 17:21									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Depends on who gets blamed. Destabilization usually means those who in power will take the heat.

If the 'destabilizing' comes from abroad, usually not.

	28-05-2003 17:34									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: If the 'destabilizing' comes from abroad, usually not.

The success of destabilization has little to do with whether the source is internal or external.

	28-05-2003 17:39									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Instability due to internal economic troubles surely tends to be much worse for the regime in charge than the involvement of a foreign country.

	28-05-2003 18:36									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Depends on the depth of the economic trouble and the strength of the foreign intervention.

For example, in the DR of Congo, it is the foreign countries' influence that pose the biggest threat to the regime of it's young despot.

	28-05-2003 18:40									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I wouldn't really call Joseph Kabila a despot. His father certainly was a despot.. but not him in my opinion.

	28-05-2003 18:41									#46
	Got spare money?

well he's hardly a democrat

	28-05-2003 18:42									#47
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by TheStinger well he's hardly a democrat

Well he isn't a Mugabe either... He is the best and only option that the DRC has.

	28-05-2003 19:18									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Some in the US have publicly stated they want to destabilize Iran: that means that Hardlines can alway drege up that wuote in time of crisis, blame reformists, and crack down hard. It does undermine reformists. There is little the US can do (war is out of the question, we won;t find many states willing to back a harder line vs Iran, so that pressure is not much) at this point. The admin. should keep its trap shut about destabalizing and figure out how to help the reformist side under the table.

	28-05-2003 19:22									#49
	Remove this text

As others have stated in this thread, this was only a threat, not a promise. Despite was some may think, the Pentagon's power is limited.

I read this as a tactical move. We need some things from Iran fairly immediately (regarding al Qaeda and Iraq), so we send a shot across their bow, letting them know that the status quo isn't acceptable.

	28-05-2003 19:26									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

who here believes, that the US-admin has a true interest in supporting the Iranian reformers?
who here can deliver a reliable source that shows there is a clear link between Iran and al qaeda?

	28-05-2003 19:27									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A wrongheaded tactical move, yes.

	28-05-2003 19:31									#52
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

oedo: Here you go...

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/m...2/alqaeda.iran/

	28-05-2003 19:32									#53
	Increase Your PM Length

Who here has the intelligence resources of the American gov't or privy to them?
This is the correct tactical move against Iran, the United States went to Iraq for exactly this kind of intervention, if needed.
This is no different than China and Russia yesterday saying to North Korea, do not go nuclear. Russia also wants guarantees from Iran that it is not using the their nuclear research started from Russia to research weapons grade materials.
This time the United States and Britain are not alone in asking for answers, funny how quickly attitudes change.

	28-05-2003 19:36									#54
	Suffering from ads?

Hell, that is even from CNN, should make SAVA happy that it is not FOX.

	28-05-2003 20:33									#55
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DanS Despite was some may think, the Pentagon's power is limited.

Yes, but does Rumsie know that?

	28-05-2003 20:57									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

Well now, you don't gain power by acting like you don't have power, do you?

	28-05-2003 21:03									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Iranian "reformers". never understood why some people have a hard-on on Khatami.

	28-05-2003 21:08									#58
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

How about: the US has been helping the reformers in Iran for some time now but change isn't happening fast enough.
So, instead of trying to covertly destabilize the government - which would have been the logical course of action IMO - lets tell the Iranian that we're going to try. Let them use this as an excuse to shut down the reformers. The US will then be facing a more "fundamentalist" regime, which it can present as being more threatening to regional stability, world peace, etc... (But lets not mention oil this time, OK ?)

	28-05-2003 21:09									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The reformers are great. They are just too differential to the mullahs and are using losing strategies.

How about : the US has been helping the reformers in Iran for some time now but change isn't happening fast enough.

We've been doing the minimal it seems. Perhaps we don't trust Khatami.

	28-05-2003 21:11									#60
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler How exactly did the west destablize the eastern bloc?

Via economic warfare. Read about the arms race and the subsequent economic collapse of the Soviet Union. In short Rony and Magy made sure the Soviets spent so much on guns that they didn't have any butter.