01-06-2003 08:54									#121
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quote: Originally posted by DanS How do we know that this is what the Iranians want? Can you reference a poll?

No, I can't reference a poll, but every time I hear a moderate or reformist speak, they don;t challenge the notion of the Islamic republic, but complain that the clerics don't let it be republic enough. I have never heard any reformits ask for a secular state.

	01-06-2003 08:55									#122
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You're saying that religious solidarity and nationalism are both non-existent among the Iranian people?

Just looking for some evidence. You've provided no evidence, only assumptions and circular arguments.

And what specific evidence are you looking for?

Be creative. You can do it.

	01-06-2003 08:58									#123
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Well, the reformist politicians are they're trying to discredit the Islamic republic in the eyes of people. I don't think they have any reverance for the rule of the Mullahs.

	01-06-2003 09:03									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Well, the reformist politicians are they're trying to discredit the Islamic republic in the eyes of people. I don't think they have any reverance for the rule of the Mullahs.

The point of contention is how much power totally unelected bodies and the conservative judiciary should have in deciding things like who can and can not run. There may be a push by the very young to lessen rules on dating and dress, but I have yet to hear anyone advocate a system where clerics have no power, or where there are no islamic rules. Anmd you certainly dont hear anyone call back the Monarchy, which is why US support for the Shah's son is so damned stupid.

	01-06-2003 09:04									#125
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I have never heard any reformits ask for a secular state.

You mentioned the people, not the reformists who are public officials and have jobs to keep. What evidence do you have that the people want an Islamic state?

	01-06-2003 09:14									#126
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What evidence do you ahve that they don't?

I assume that the reformists, given the sort of victory margin they got in 1999 probably share a very high degree of beliefs with the 70% of the voters that put them in power back in 1999.

	01-06-2003 09:23									#127
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What evidence do you ahve that they don't?

The students are agitating for a secular state.

	01-06-2003 09:24									#128
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The students have the vote. For whom were they voting?

	01-06-2003 09:35									#129
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They voted for nobody. The city elections were boycotted and the hardliners won.

	01-06-2003 09:39									#130
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Manay more than just the students boycotted, to get turnout under 20%.

I was asking about the last election for parliment.

	01-06-2003 09:48									#131
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That was in 2000, right? That was a long time ago.

Just last November, we had large student protests about the death sentence of a professor who questioned the clerics right of rule. These were put down using force by conservative paramilitaries.