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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:28
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"As long as we put in a good effort this time (and don't just leave), I think we can make it work"
They hate you, they hate your presence, they hate you for what you have done, they feel assaulted, they feel violated. They didnt like Saddam Hussein, thats for sure, but talking to some of my Iraqi friends, they say that at least he was a fellow Arab. This "project" is pretty much doomed to failure as I been saying all along, and I just dont believe that even with the best of intentions (which I doubt they have), America wont make this work, the way they are doing it.
"Perhaps but they MUST change!"
Why? Sure they dont conform to your sociological paramaters and sure they live in a society you might describe as primitive, and sure they do things differently to you, but that makes it no less valid. For you to force your subjective on them is ludicrous! They hold the same opinions about US society, who is to say is correct? Yet you, as an equal subjective, have been judge, jury and executioner!
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:28
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"Because them blowing up buildings is something we should be promoting?"
Of course not. You dont hurt them with foreign policy, they wont do it.
"Their oppresive nature is something we should tolerate?"
Yes. Feel free to critisise it, or even take non-drastic measures against it (but be advised to take moral and well thought out measures). If the people want it changed, then it will be changed. If they dont or show no sign, then you have no right to waltz in there and change it.
"It's time we draw a line in the sand"
No it isnt. It never is. It is simply none of your nations business!
"If they didn't have oil, they would have changed long time ago... or else they would have died"
So it is about oil then?
"When we decide we've had enough, we can go in and try to make things right"
No you cant. Sure you can physically and you have the means as a powerful military, but ideally, you shouldnt, and you wouldnt be able to take such agressive, judgemental acts.
"He who sets himself up as judge of a man will be shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods" - einstein.
In the absense of the gods, I'm laughing.
"We let them do what they wanted for years now, but after 9/11 it just isn't good enough."
9/11 was an attack by a small number of individuals. Sure it kicked you where it hurts and it damaged your pride, another Pearl Harbour, but at the end of the day, it is no excuse to waltz in and change regimes. It is especially no excuse to go around changing societies, cultures, governments, simply because you dont like them on moral grounds. Im sorry but your morals are entirely subjective, and arent shared by everyone in the world. The sooner America ceases to assume otherwise, the better.
Meantime, if you are that scared about terrorism (which actually causes relatively little collateral... compare 9/11 with a single night of the blitz), then beef up internel security and intelligence. Sure it wont win votes, but it'll work.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:28
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"It is an excuse to change regimes (at least in Iraq) to me"
Why? Because they are a dictatorship? If so, please read the rest of this thread.
"We've stood by and let them get away with crap for too long"
You were never in a moral or legal position to NOT "let them get away with cr@p" as you put it. This crap, is part of another culture, which you have replaced with your own, which the Iraqis are rejecting.
"We should push for more democratization"
Why? Nothing holy about democracy, especially a culture whose only experience with it has been disastrous!
"Governments that look the other way when these people camp out in their countries should be told that this won't be tolerated"
Good! Am I to take it that you support a change in foreign policy that WONT antagonise these people? Of course, a pretty major part, if not the major part is no more preemptive wars, because thats been pretty good at antagonising people thus far!
"Either harbor terrorist groups or do business with the US"
Out of the two, I rather you use coins rather than bullets.
"we will engage in the war of rhetoric"
Good, thats got more of a chance of changing things willingly from within, if the reasoning is good enough. If not, well, sticks and stones.
"At the very least, the regime change in Iraq was politically easy and showed how serious we are about this"
Wait for a few years on that one. Seriously you got my laughing out loud now, you'll wake up my cat!
Iraq will be hugely difficult, imo, nigh on impossible for the US at least. The UN stands a much better chance.
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29-05-2003 06:53
), The iraquis don't seem in better condition that before as all their resourses are being looted by foreign industries, the infraestructure is in shambles, their country is in anarchy and when they protest agains US they are shoot by yanquee soldiers.
I've got the answer: It's because your imperialist foreign policies!!!!! Don't believe all the propaganda your government tells you; You aren't the bastion of democracy, it's the opposite thing. Ypu've installed more puppet dictatorships that any other country in the world.
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