29-05-2003 05:37									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm all for getting out of Saudi Arabia but it has nothing to do with terrorism or money and everything to do with not supporting one of the most vile and repressive regimes on Earth. The day the house of Saud falls is the day I dance in the street.

	29-05-2003 05:37									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

sorry everyone for the slight threadjacking, but I had to share this one Shankly quote with Master Zen.

"Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale play as an anniversary present. It was her birthday. Would I have got married in the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves." - Bill Shankly

BTW are you an ex-pat Zen?

	29-05-2003 05:38									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Fez You know Fidel has been doing exactly that. Making Cuba into a feudal state with slave like conditions. That is why so many people are trying to leave.

Why would you care what Fidel does to dissidents. You said that you loved Pinochet.

Threadjack over.

	29-05-2003 05:38									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Zen - I didn't see money mentioned by Wolfowitz, only that getting our troops out of Saudi Arabia was desired because of Muslim holy sites in the area.

hehehe... I was reading an article on deployment costs right before that one, I guess the ideas got mixed

they would save quite a bunch of $$ though!

	29-05-2003 05:41									#35
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by reds4ever sorry everyone for the slight threadjacking, but I had to share this one Shankly quote with Master Zen. "Of course I didn't take my wife to see Rochdale play as an anniversary present. It was her birthday. Would I have got married in the football season? Anyway, it was Rochdale reserves." - Bill Shankly BTW are you an ex-pat Zen?

no, I'm 100% Mexican living in 100% Mexico . But we're all football freaks, and since the all-italian CL final was today, it's pretty much the talk of the town.

BTW: I wanted Juve to win but they played so friggin terrible. If they had played just half as good as against Real they would have annihilated Milan

	29-05-2003 05:42									#36
	Increase Your PM Length

oh, and as far as Premier clubs go, I'm a red myself

	29-05-2003 05:44									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Why would you care what Fidel does to dissidents. You said that you loved Pinochet. Threadjack over.

No I didn't.

And I am the one that says threadjack over.

	29-05-2003 05:47									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Fez And I am the one that says threadjack over.

Uhhh... No, that's my job.

So come on folks... address the troll and stop the threadjacking...

	29-05-2003 05:48									#39
	Put an end to popups!

Zen -

quote: hehehe... I was reading an article on deployment costs right before that one, I guess the ideas got mixed they would save quite a bunch of $$ though!

How? They spent loads of money building bases in Saudi Arabia so we are losing that money by moving the troops,and if they are moved to Iraq, more money will be spent to build bases there or other Arab countries more welcoming of US troops.

	29-05-2003 05:49									#40
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Ming Uhhh... No, that's my job. So come on folks... address the troll and stop the threadjacking...

See even my DL says it!

Anyways... What more will the opposition to Bush pull out of their hat of lies? I'd like to hear what is next....

	29-05-2003 05:49									#41
	Suffering from ads?

Sorry for my part in the football threadjack...

what troll Ming?

	29-05-2003 05:51									#42
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Ming Uhhh... No, that's my job. So come on folks... address the troll and stop the threadjacking...

ACK!

	29-05-2003 05:51									#43
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Berzerker Zen - How? They spent loads of money building bases in Saudi Arabia so we are losing that money by moving the troops,and if they are moved to Iraq, more money will be spent to build bases there or other Arab countries more welcoming of US troops.

who says they'll move to iraq? The whole idea is to get them back home now that the Middle East is supposedly "peaceful and safe".

	29-05-2003 05:55									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sorry Ming but as for you Fez.....

	29-05-2003 05:56									#45
	Full PM-box? Change here!

This was the major justification of the war that was pressed so hard before, and now their backpedalling!

Dont you just love it when conservatives moonwalk?

I feel all warm, tingly and vindicated now! This was the argument that was toughest the counter (not saying much baring in mind the strength of the others), and it is merely a construct!

Ah well! In all fairness to Fez , there are better examples of communism working, and working well, than Cuba.

	29-05-2003 05:58									#46
	Remove this text

"What more will the opposition to Bush pull out of their hat of lies"



"Yes, we know there are WMD's in Iraq."

	29-05-2003 05:58									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen what troll Ming?

Have a nice day...

	29-05-2003 05:59									#48
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Obviously many will come home, but that was going to happen anyway. Many will stay in the region to make sure the job is done in Iraq. I heard we are building bases in Bahrain to accomodate the loss of bases in Saudi Arabia, so we aren't saving money. And I'm not sure who you are quoting with that "peaceful and safe" Middle East, the administration has repeatedly made it clear we will be there for quite a while because the ME is not peaceful and safe.

	29-05-2003 06:00									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by elijah Ah well! In all fairness to Fez , there are better examples of communism working, and working well, than Cuba.

Yes.. oh Somalia it was with Bairre... and Ethoipia too with Mengistu... ALL VERY FINE EXAMPLES... not...

Eeek.. I better stop drinking Red Bull at night...

	29-05-2003 06:01									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I have a question for pro-war people here :

- do you sincerely think WMDs were the first motivation of the administration to attack Iraq, or one of the most important reasons ?

- do you think the liberation of the Iraqi people was the major aim of the administration when attacking ?

- If not, did you think so before the beginning of the war ?

Thanks

	29-05-2003 06:01									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

With many more billions heading in the direction of the US military (in the face of massive recent tax cuts), I'm pretty sure theyre not too worried about saving money at this stage.

This of course, worries me, as I fear we may face yet another military "adventure".

	29-05-2003 06:05									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

"Yes.. oh Somalia it was with Bairre... and Ethoipia too with Mengistu... ALL VERY FINE EXAMPLES... not...

Eeek.. I better stop drinking Red Bull at night"

Ummm, again with the thread jacking (Im sorry I probably encouraged it though ).... You want to continue this, PM me or start another thread, but for now, I think the people want to hear about Bush's failure to back up his evidence.

Spiffor, you know I am not exactly what one might describe as pro-war, but in answer to your questions, no, no and no!!

It is somewhat naive imo to claim that the true motivations were anything other than money (oil and arms) and political gain at home.

	29-05-2003 06:06									#53
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: I think the people want to hear about Bush's failure to back up his evidence.

You don't speak for the people.

	29-05-2003 06:06									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by elijah With many more billions heading in the direction of the US military (in the face of massive recent tax cuts), I'm pretty sure theyre not too worried about saving money at this stage. This of course, worries me, as I fear we may face yet another military "adventure".

Iran, Syria, N. Korea, take your pick

	29-05-2003 06:09									#55
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Fez No I didn't.

Yes you did...

quote: The only Latin American country that had a good dictator was Chile

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=71260

Took me ages to find that.

	29-05-2003 06:11									#56
	Increase Your PM Length

Sorry Agathon, I didn't say I liked him though. I just said he was good.

	29-05-2003 06:11									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: - do you sincerely think WMDs were the first motivation of the administration to attack Iraq, or one of the most important reasons ?

No, as Wolfy said, it was just that which everyone could agree on.

quote: - do you think the liberation of the Iraqi people was the major aim of the administration when attacking ?

Kind of... if you define liberation of the Iraqi people to mean getting rid of a dangerous dictator (which is almost but not quite the same).

quote: - If not, did you think so before the beginning of the war ?

On which one? I didn't think either was the goal. The goal was to get Saddam out, and that is why I backed the war. I don't care about WMD one hoot! Now, getting rid of a dangerous anti-American dictator... that's one cause I can get behind.

	29-05-2003 06:12									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

"You don't speak for the people"

Ditto

I speak for myself, and I interpret what I see. If you think it is anything other than a failure to back up his evidence, then explain that alternative explanation, otherwise, cease your ad hominems (which are really getting rather irritating), and use reasoning, which one can debate. Ad hominems only serve to stagnate an otherwise dynamic discussion.

Red Bull is good (just dont mix it )

They used a series of points to back up this war, the centrepiece of which is now looking like a dead duck, so it will be most interesting to see what happens now. Im guessing that the fallacious, emotive argument of dictatorship will be used by the US now. This argument is about as watertight as a sieve....

Needless to say, I dont really need to pull objectivity out of my "hat of lies".

	29-05-2003 06:12									#59
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Fez Sorry Agathon, I didn't say I liked him though. I just said he was good.

No worries. Let's stop before Ming kills us.

	29-05-2003 06:13									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Let's stop before Ming kills us.

Too late, the laser beam is aiming .