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Dominae
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This is the spoiler, strategy and comments thread for AU208: Total Eternal Forever War. The scenario files and description may be found here.
Let reports of Total War begin...
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Nor Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Nor Me, there's only so much you can do to be "evil" when creating an AU scenario...Another reason you may feel this one is "predictable" is that it resembles another AU scenario you've played.
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I know that alexman might not have seen AU401 so I can forgive him that.
But don't you ask yourself why did I meet just those 2 civs?
As a result, I've not seen either UU so far!
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Dominae
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As some may know, I've always been a fan of warmongering, but I've never really ever had the chance of using what is arguably the best warmonger UU in the game: Chinese Riders! That was incentive enough for me to pick China in this game (that and the really useful traits, of course).
At first glance, the start spot looks so-so: a lot of Forest with Plains underneath, the saving graces being access to fresh water to irrigate everything and the Furs. But, I founded the first city, I realised the potential here: a production powerhouse! With the city-center tile providing a minimum of 2 Shields and a nice Forest Game tile to boot, I was looking at 4 Shields per turn on turn 1!
What to do, what to do...
The two options I saw were:
1. Warrior in 3 turns, using the the Game tile twice and the lake once (to avoid Shield waste and to get a "free" 2 Commerce).
2. Archer in 5 turns, using the Game tile the whole time.
With a couple of Total War test runs, I knew that exploration was actually undesirable under the Total War rules. You want to scout out just enough to know where you're going to plant your first few cities, and that's it. Otherwise you meet the AIs too quickly and they invariably rush you with their free units (I'm playing Emperor). Thus, Warriors did not seem like a good idea to me. So, I decided to go with a string of early Archers: slow enough not to meet anyone too soon, but powerful enough to cause the AI some real problems once I did.
Here's a screenshot showing my actions for the first few turns. I avoided chopping the Furs Forests because I wanted to use those for my Granary build. In retrospect this may have been a mistake, since improved Furst on Plains produce the wonderful "2 of everything" Bonus Grasslands yield.
 Attachment: au208 screen1.jpg
This has been downloaded 563 time(s).
Last edited by Dominae on 29-05-2003 at 06:46
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Dominae
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The screen below highlights some micromanagement that is quite beneficial and not too time-consuming early on.
Most players would simply leave the Laborer on the Game tile, since there are 4 Shields to go for the Archer and the city produces 4 Shields per turn in that configuration. But notice that the city grows next turn. Once this happens, the new Laborer gets to a tile and the Shield output of that tile actually counts toward the production for the current turn. This only works for Shields, not Commerce. Therefore, it is better to assign Laborers to Commerce tiles before growth, since the production will "kick in for free" when the city grows.
In the screenshot, the new Laborer is assigned to the Game tile when the city grows to size 2, and the Archer is finished.
Huzzah for micro-management!
Attachment: au208 screen2.jpg
This has been downloaded 539 time(s).
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Dominae
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I met the Iroquois in 3300BC, and figured they should have some techs to trade, being an Expansionist civ and all. Thus, I set my research to zero and contacted them, instead of waiting until they contact me, throwing us into an uninevitable war with no quarer.
The reason for setting Science to 0% is to trade Gold per turn to the Iroquois, knowing full well that I would never give them a penny (since the negotiations must end with a declaration of war on my side). This allowed me to get the trade shown in the screenshot below.
The "negotiations" went something like:
Iroquois envoy: "Good trade, happy have generous Chinese neighbor".
Chinese envoy: "Yes, good trade, ah, uh...YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME!?!"
I really wanted Bronze Working fast, because I was afraid to fend off the Iroquois free units with only Archers. I had not yet met Rome at this point, and therefore could not foresee that breaking the gpt deal would hurt my reputation with Caesar, preventing me from getting Alphabet in a trade. Had I known Rome was a neighbor, I would have "screwed" them instead of the Iroquois, since the Great Library is a must-have in this game (I figure).
Attachment: au208 screen3.jpg
This has been downloaded 517 time(s).
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Dominae
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After declaring war on the Iroquois and killing off their Warrior envoy, my Archers continued North for the some target practice.
Back home I believe I built 3 Archers and 1 Spearmen before proceeding on to the Granary. With so much production in the capital, I could build that many units and still build a Granary before reaching size 4. In normal games I would never build so many units straight away, but I knew that Hiawatha was coming after me with a bunch of Warriors and Spearmen (the AI's strategy in early war is "rush the capital, even if you're not supposed to know where it is"). My industrious Worker was prioritizing a Road network to my next city-sites. As mentioned before, this was a mistake, as I should have been chopping Forest to hunt beavers on plains.
Then, the Archer-rusher's dream: an enemy Settler-Warrior combo marches next to my Archer, begging to be bopped. I obliged, and ordered my new slaves back home.
Attachment: au208 screen4.jpg
This has been downloaded 485 time(s).
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Dominae
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Below is a screenshot that pretty much sums up everything at 3050BC. Some things to note:
1. I had just spotted the Roman borders and decided to avoid them for the moment. Both AI civs I knew about looked to be relatively close to my capitol and I did not want a steady stream of free and cheap units aimed at me from two directions.
2. Forces: 3 Vet. Archers (all promoted), 1 Reg. Spearmen.
3. Production: Granary. I wanted to eventually chop down the Forest around the Game and get some semi-good growth from at least one city in my empire. This is why the Spearmen stayed home to ward off potential contact with Rome and/or Barbarians. Usually I would sent all units on their scouting way, but Total War is a horse of a different color.
4. The Iroquois are already sending everything they have (more or less) to strike at me: in two turns I spot four Warriors making their way down the mountain range.
Attachment: au208 screen5.jpg
This has been downloaded 471 time(s).
Last edited by Dominae on 29-05-2003 at 08:02
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Dominae
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By the way, I'm being very thorough with this first part of my AAR because many people on the Strat Forum have asked questions about the early-game recently. Since I had the presense of mind to take a lot of screenshots in this game, I felt this level of detail might be helpful to some. In no way am I saying this was "the way to do it", as I'm sure my play is far from optimal (probably due to the beers).
Dominae
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Dominae
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I finished the Granary in my capitol pretty quickly, and proceeded to build send my first Settler to the Furs to the NW. This second site would also get the benefit of 2 Shields per turn in the city-centre tile, and would hopefully keep military production up, since my "Settler pump" capitol would be losing pop and therfore production capacity every few turns. Nonetheless, I Forest-chopped a Barracks in my capitol, because Archers+Barracks is what China does best.
I still had only 4 military units to my name, and started worrying about defense. I had sent all my Archers up to deal with the Iroquois offensive, and they had done a superb job: not one casualty, and 5 or 6 brave Iroquois troops sent into the Great Beyond. Enjoying the taste of blood and victory, I then ordered all my Archers further North, into Iroquois lands. "Time to generate some Elites", I thought. So, no one but a lone Spearmen back home, I was hoping the Romans would not contact me too switfly.
And not contact me they did, for a long time (read: Rome did not contact for a long time).
Alghough Rome and I knew of each others' presence, neither of us felt the need to open diplomatic channels. I was very happy about this, since this meant the Roman troops were ordered to do nothing, instead of do something against me.
Below is a screenshot of the siege of Salamanca. I had gone in earlier and destroyed the tile improvements around city, most importantly on the Cattle and Furs tiles. Without a Road network, Hiawatha's periodic Archers could never reach my own, which I always placed just out of reach. This did not deter the Iroquois, who gladly rushed out to their deaths every so often.
Attachment: au208 screen7.jpg
This has been downloaded 457 time(s).
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:28
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AU 208 Log:
First of all, I chose Carthage as a civ, mainly because of their UU. I am sort of afraid that I'll be wiped out in the beginning becuase I'm not too good at early war. Also, I get alphabet so I can get the GL quickly.
btw, I'm playing regent.
Look at that start location 
I build Carthage right on the furs.
I'm trying to explore my immediate surroungings, starting to the SW. I hope to not contact anyone this way... 
I research the wheel first. I hope to get horses and maybe be able to skip Bronze working in my quest for the Great Library.
3400bc: There goes my plan... Iroquois scout shows up. Attack!! Traded for warrior code before the attack, however.  Time to go for archers.
3350bc: SETTLER FROM HUT!!! YAYAYAYAY!!!! ooh... on top of mountain, I see a red border.. must not go over there too soon!
2900bc: 4 Iroquois warriors and 1 archer approach my second city... defended by a warrior and two archers...
2850bc: I lose both my archers attacking warriors .
2750bc: Second city lost to Warrior. Second second city founded, however.
2710bc: Wheel discovered... whats with the one tiled island horsie? No useable horsies in sight . Bronze working has to be researched.
2590bc: I actually win a battle!!  Unfortunatly, that was the only one I won, and I lost my capital city
2510bc: LOST!! I told people I was bad at early wars
I've got to try again; I'll take lessens from this... i.e. don't have ultra wars against the AI and to bribe the PRNG.
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Dominae
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This is pretty much what the Iroquois empire has looked like for the past ~3000 years. Still no Great Leader...(of course, would he be "great" if he made a living ambushing weak Iroquois Archers?).
Attachment: au208 screen8.jpg
This has been downloaded 454 time(s).
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Dominae
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Fast-forward a bunch of turns where nothing much happened other than REX, Archer/Spearmen and harassement of the Iroquois. Then:
Roman envoy: "Greetings. Rome is the Light. Our Emperor has had his eye on your for..."
Chinese envoy: "YOU WANT A PIECE OF ME?!!?"
And that was that.
I had still not yet scouted out the Roman lands, and probably should have. Actually, I probably should have rushed the Romans immediately, instead of waiting for their Legions to show up. Sigh. The same exact thing happened to me in AU401, where Rome was once again sitting on an Iron Hill, and I had to assault that with two handfuls of Archers. The difference this time, of course, is that I cannot just fly a white flag whenever I want to build up again; I actually have to defend against the fury of the Roman army!
And defend I did. To tell you the truth, never before have I been so impressed with Walls. What a sweet improvement! "Oh, you've got a super-UU? How about you try and get at my Elite Spearmen behind these Walls!". Of course, the only reason I had to resort to Walls is that Horses and Iron are pretty hard to come by in this scenario.
This is where my game stands now: a stalemate between my superior tactics, and Rome's superior unit quality (read: UU) but inferior intelligence. I'm still not sure how I'm going to get out of this one. I've got some plans, though:
1. I'm inching my way to a Iron Colony in the middle of that weirdly-shaped mountain range. If I can get some 3-power units, this game is going to be a lot easier.
2. I'm circling around the Roman lands, picking off the crappy cities that do not have Legions as defenders. The problem is, the AI uses Legions for offense and defense, meaning that all their cities along my borders are basically impossible to grab. The outlying cites only have Spearmen defenders, so grabbing these should be a more tractable task.
3. I'm slowly getting to Literature. Still no Great Leader yet, but boy oh boy you bet he's going to found the biggest baddest library after he retires!
4. After Literature, I can either go for Mathematics and Catapults, or Map Making and the chance to hook up the Horses on that little island (I can just hear the horses laughing at me from across the bay...). Both routes give me another tool against Rome, which should turn the tide of battle. Right now, Rome is Average compared to me in military, jumping up to Strong when they build some new Legions. If I get new troops, I think that's game over (for Rome).
Really fun game. I'm actually quite glad I did not dispose of Rome early, as now I've got a real fight on my hands.
Oh, and here's a screenshot of my current turn:
Attachment: au208 screen9.jpg
This has been downloaded 433 time(s).
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Dominae
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Enough of me, more about you guys:
Panzer32: Tough break. Hope you'll try again. I believe the Carthaginians are weaker than I had originally thought, because even though their UU is amazing against the AI, you really need units fast in this game. Then again, you're not dependent on a Strategic resource to build your Mercs., so that should help here.
Theseus: Yup, I'm at Emperor. This means two things: 1) the AI starts with more units, and so the inevitable initial rush is more difficult to handle, 2) the AI researches better, which is even worse than usual, since you'll never get to benefit from the increased tech speed. I'm expecting this second point to be a real killer once one gets on the world stage.
Arrian: Looking good! That's really really annoying about the Great Library, though. You might have to turn this into a super-builder game just to keep up technologically! Or, you could use the fact that your UU will not be obsolete for quite some time and just keep conquering. I have no idea where the other civs are, so maybe this second option is not feasible (i.e. the other continent is not within safe Galley distance).
Dominae
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Theseus: Yup, I'm at Emperor. This means two things: 1) the AI starts with more units, and so the inevitable initial rush is more difficult to handle, 2) the AI researches better, which is even worse than usual, since you'll never get to benefit from the increased tech speed. I'm expecting this second point to be a real killer once one gets on the world stage.
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To quote Morpheus:
"Here they co-ome."
The Mounted Warriors, that is.
Sh*t. Been dreading it...
_________________________
Re research, I've never really been comfortable with the come-from-behind thing. Given this situation, I finally realize how it is like the 'drafting' that race-car and bicycle riders do... pretty cool.
So, can I survive and draft my way to feudalism?
My guess is I'll have to play this 2-3 times to get it right.
Thanks alexman, for setting this up... I've been *way* to inside the comfort zone for a while.
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DaveMcW
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Since I'm playing on deity, I had no chance to for a surgical strike on my neighbors before they rushed me.
4000BC: Build at the start
3550BC: Barracks in Carthage
3050BC: Trade Masonry to Rome for Bronze Working
2800BC: Golden Age begins
2670BC: Great Leader
2550BC: Pyramids
2150BC: Discover Mathematics
2030BC: Trade Mathematics to Iroquois for Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Iron Working, Mysticism
1600BC: Discover Writing
1225BC: Great Leader
1125BC: Trade Mathematics to England for World Map, Pottery, and 176 gold
1025BC: Discover Literature
1000BC: Great Library
My army is currently 9 Mercenaries and 12 catapults. The Carthaginian, Roman, and Iroquois GAs are over.
Attachment: davemcw_awdeity_1000bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 384 time(s).
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Nakar Gabab
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of Pedantic Nitpicking
May 2001
time: 00:28
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EDIT: Settings were Regent (my usual level, probably a good challenge in TW), Aztecs, AU Mod, all default settings except Restart AI Civs OFF.
First, a disclaimer: I despise Restart AI Civs. I've hated it since it first came into play and always turn it off. As you'll see, perhaps this time I shouldn't have.
I must confess to a bit of frustration in my abortive attempt at China. They just... kept... coming! Ironically, I rushed Rome before I had even the slightest idea what they were up to in the first game.
I can't claim to be so naive the second time around, when I went to my original strategy. If you can't take Legions and MWs, hit 'em before they HAVE Legions and MWs... 
 Attachment: romedown.gif
This has been downloaded 366 time(s).
Last edited by Nakar Gabab on 29-05-2003 at 11:02
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:28.
Apolyton Time is 00:28. |
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29-05-2003 06:22
@ Alexman.
Next turn, they appear for good. Get CB and pottery from them before I declare war. 
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