06-06-2003 18:16									#1
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In my little town a 19 year old kid killed himself a couple days back. Took a gun and put a bullet through his brain. Here we live in near paradise on the Oregon Coast, small town...yet this kid ends it all. Doesn't happen much here so its big news. I hear other places have much higher suicide rates. In the Philippines there are very few, unheard of, yet so many there are dirt poor, lacking food and clean water...

So, is it drugs or the music or...what? Why does this happen in the wealthy west?

	06-06-2003 18:17									#2
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Slow economic growth...

	06-06-2003 18:18									#3
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What makes you think it doesn't happen elsewhere? Why do you think that one kids suicide is symptomatic of a larger cultural disorder, rather than a problem within the child himself?

I would think that suicide rates are so "high" because cholera death rates are so low. Capice?

	06-06-2003 18:19									#4
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High expectations.

	06-06-2003 18:20									#5
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Slow growth? In the Philippines they have no growth, and suicide is unheard of.

	06-06-2003 18:21									#6
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Suicide will be unheard of in the Phillipines because it is very catholic and the famalies of people who commit suicide will cover it up

	06-06-2003 18:23									#7
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Increasingly sedentary lifestyles leading to a lack of exercise leading to a lack of endorphins and serotonin in the brain.

	06-06-2003 18:24									#8
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John, the only logical conclusion I can reach from what you wrote is that these kids are killing themselves because there isn't enough cholera in the world.

Asher, high expectations and no foundation maybe. Nothing inside that enables them to ride the setbacks.

	06-06-2003 18:27									#9
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Stinger, maybe. The people there are happier for some reason though. You have to see it to believe it.

Boddington, nice one. I don't buy it though.

	06-06-2003 18:28									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer John, the only logical conclusion I can reach from what you wrote is that these kids are killing themselves because there isn't enough cholera in the world.

I think what he meant was that far fewer people might kill themselves in those countries because they're too busy dying of all sorts of other things, like cholera.

	06-06-2003 18:28									#11
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Suicide's An Alternative


Sick of people - no ones real
Sick of chicks - they're all *****es
Sick of you - you're to hip
Sick of life - it sucks

Suicide's an alternative

Sick of trying - what's the point
Sick of talking - no one listens
Sick of listening - its all lies
Sick of thinking - just end up confused
Sick of moving - never get nowhere
Sick of myself - don't wanna live
Sick and tired - and no one cares
Sick of life - it sucks

Sick of politics - for the rich
Sick of power - only oppresses
Sick of government - full of tyrants
Sick of school - total brainwash
Sick of music - top 40 sucks
Sick of myself - don't wanna live
Sick and tired - and no one cares
Sick of life - it sucks

Suicide's an alternative

Sick of life - it sucks
Sick and tired - and no one cares
Sick of myself - don't wanna live
Sick of living - I'm gonna die

	06-06-2003 18:30									#12
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No, the thing is that Western kids are killing themselves in such "large" numbers because there's nothing else doing so other than accidents. When you live in a country where your life expectancy is 50, plenty of **** is wasting people left and right, young and old.

According to the NIMH, suicide rates for young people (20-24 years of age seems to be the most likely age) top out at 40 deaths per 100,000... or .04% of the population.

Otoh, suicide is far more of a danger to the elderly, where the suicide rate almost doubles, to 80 deaths per 100,000, or .08% of the population.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/suichart.cfm

	06-06-2003 18:31									#13
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Not just a Western problem.
http://www.maoism.org/misc/india/ru...nt_suicides.htm

	06-06-2003 18:33									#14
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Here's a chart showing Suicide statistics, by country, from 1998. Note that the top countries for suicide are actually ex-Communist countries in the Soviet bloc.

http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/IASR/suicide-figure1.htm

	06-06-2003 18:33									#15
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there are high suicide rates in skorea and japan, as well.

it might be endemic to developed nations-- kids with everything but are still sad over something. in a less-developed nation, they'd either die earlier or have no choice but to continue living (family burdens come earlier, i suppose)...

	06-06-2003 18:37									#16
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or it could just be a defect in boys.

	06-06-2003 18:37									#17
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According to this table, the world's suicide rate is 19.3/100,000 and the US is just slightly above that at 19.8/100,000

http://www.uni-wuerzburg.de/IASR/suicide-table1.htm

	06-06-2003 18:38									#18
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Clearly it is better to be Catholic.

	06-06-2003 18:39									#19
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Here's the aforementioned chart:

Attachment: suicide.jpg
This has been downloaded 197 time(s).

	06-06-2003 18:40									#20
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Clearly it is better to be Catholic.

Why?

	06-06-2003 18:42									#21
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I'm not too sure the chart really supports the "Catholic" hypothesis.

	06-06-2003 18:45									#22
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Statistics can be used to prove anything. Give me good ol' coincidence anyday.

	06-06-2003 18:47									#23
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"Statistics can be used to prove anything"

Bollocks. I think that is my least liked quote.

	06-06-2003 18:53									#24
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9 out of 10 people agree with it.

	06-06-2003 19:06									#25
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Statistics can suggest something, but it's only a fool that allows a single statistic to prove something to him.

	06-06-2003 19:11									#26
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I think MOST of the answer lies in perspective.

A western kid thinks negatively about themselves if they don't excel. Consumerism is all, but once you reach the stage where you realise that your being sold 10 minues of happiness only, and that it will be junk in 5 years, your question is "what's the point?"

Suicide happens for many reasons. However, they all have one thing in common - that death seems preferable to living.

Think on this - all humanity's emotions are wired the same. We all "feel" to the same extremes. Even though a western kid might not physicaly "suffer" as much as others, the feeling of suffering is the same. Add in the tolerance factor - that suffering breeds tolerance - and it's very easy to see why westerners go off the deep end when exposed to trauma. We are not used to sudden, unexpected shock.

If you grow up, say, iin India, where death is a common sight on the street, suicide is seen as a waste of time. Why die because you are in pain today - you could be in bliss tomorrow.

I really haven't explained this well at all. Suggest you look up Alvin Toffler's "Future Shock".

	06-06-2003 19:17									#27
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Depression has nothing to do with personal circumstances, if you think of it as an illness that can hit anyone then you are closer to understanding it.

Your brain distorts the world so that you can only see the bad. It doesn't matter if you are rich, successful, have loads of friends and a loving partner, you could still get depressed, get really miserable and kill yourself although hopefully in that situation someone would notice and help you out.

I don't think we all feel the same extremes, on an individual level some people are more emotional than others.

One of the things about depression is that it's a lot harder to be depressed when you are concentrating on day to day survival. Something we don't really have to do that much in the west anymore.

	06-06-2003 19:20									#28
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So you're saying we should release wild tigers into the streets?

	06-06-2003 19:22									#29
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I wasn't but it sounds like fun.

	06-06-2003 19:25									#30
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In regards to India, this study (PDF document) estimates that the suicide rate in India is grossly underreported, and that the real estimate is about 95 suicides per 100,000. Officially, the estimates are about 8-12 per 100,000, but the data on Indian suicides is notoriously difficult to gather.

Other Sources: http://www.flonnet.com/fl1821/18210960.htm

http://www.med.uio.no/iasp/bertolote.pdf