08-06-2003 23:51									#31
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Not nessecarily unethical, though I do belive it could be should it become an obsession.

	09-06-2003 08:16									#32
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while porn isn't unethical to me, I do admit there is a disturbing trend in porn that is more demeaning than ever. bukkake, simulated rape and such.

	09-06-2003 08:18									#33
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Nobody is tied up and forced to proform in a porno flick. Sure, it is degrading but there are a lot of degrading jobs out there and the bottom line is people agree to let themselves be put in that position because they want to make a lot of money.

	09-06-2003 08:28									#34
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Certainly all the softcore stuff is ok. Kids have to learn how to do it somehow. . It also really doesn't hurt anyone. Getting paid to have sex with someone reasonably attractive can't be that bad of a deal. And taking your clothes off in front of people can't be that bad either.

However paying someone to be in pain is bothersome. I'm on the fence about some of the yukkier porn.

	09-06-2003 08:30									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Nobody is tied up and forced to proform in a porno flick. Sure, it is degrading but there are a lot of degrading jobs out there and the bottom line is people agree to let themselves be put in that position because they want to make a lot of money.

Actually, there have been several reported incidents of women being drugged for use in amateur/low budget porn (the claims of the "Deep Throat" actress being one of them).

	09-06-2003 08:45									#36
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what kind of drugs?

how can a woman perform when she is drugged?

most porn involves lots of "acts" by women, just lying there half-dead doesn't cut if for porn movies. Women especially need to be able to use their mouths. . At least that is what I prefer.

	09-06-2003 08:51									#37
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quote: Originally posted by badams52 Also, I see the porn industry similar to prostitution. Can you really say that the women prostitutes are happy with their jobs?

It partly depends on whether prostitution is illegal in the country or not. Plenty of happy hookers in Holland (and other places).

I see a similar argument for porn. Give them a union and some health care benefits and what's the issue?

If you can't ban something, regulate it. Prohibition does not work and just creates more problems.

(Hmm, could be a new department opening at the BBC )

	09-06-2003 17:12									#38
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i gotta find a pimp...

	09-06-2003 19:56									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin the bottom line is people agree to let themselves be put in that position because they want to make a lot of money.

Whilst many do do it for the big money I'm sure there are also many who are in a sense forced into the line of business by lack of other options.

I'm not saying that that's unethical or coersive, but its also not the way you are painting the bottom line.

	09-06-2003 20:32									#40
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I don't understand why feminists think porn is demeaning, it's one of the few industries where the women get paid more than the men, and the men have a harder job! (excuse the pun)

	09-06-2003 22:46									#41
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Porn is awesome. As long as everyone's willing I don't see what the problem is. The people who don't like it shouldn't look at it.

	09-06-2003 22:52									#42
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As long as everyone consents, it is ok. This talk about some women don't have other choices or options is silly. Does that mean working at McDonald's is unethical (hey, hey... leave the jokes at the door ). Obviously the woman has a choice to work as a cashier somewhere or do porn. Porn pays more, so she does it. No big deal.

	10-06-2003 03:01									#43
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I dont watch it, I dont particularly like it, I think its demeaning etc (and I'm an 18 year old hetereosexual male from the UK), but if the people making it, the actors and the viewers consent, then it is not unethical and simply a matter of viewer choice.

	10-06-2003 05:17									#44
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well I think many feminists consider sex inheritantly demeaning to women. I can see that point of view. As the women are the recipient. That's just the way we are designed.

So having that sex on porn makes it even more demeaning as they are essentually willing to do anything for money.

and I mentioned two recent trends of porn that are very demeaning to women.

	10-06-2003 05:32									#45
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i don't understand the fascination with it.

it's the same thing, over and over again, really.

it's also usually quite disgusting.

	10-06-2003 05:34									#46
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I think making porn and viewing it are both unethical.

It offends my Christian principles. I worry about the effect it has on people, especially children and young adults. I also worry about the effect on the people making it.

I don't however support a ban on it.

	10-06-2003 05:41									#47
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sex is disgusting?

well not for the guy at least

	10-06-2003 05:42									#48
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Banana

Porn can be unethical when it shows rape, pain or things like that. I don't see how "unethical" it is otherwise. Opposite to religious morals for sure, but unethical ?

	10-06-2003 05:46									#49
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As someone else said there is a grey area when it comes to Consent. It's a matter of some of people having no choice, and you know who this affects most - the Poor!!!
Selling your body is a disgusting byproduct of Capitalism that has allowed the Rich to abuse innocent poor people who need some money. It is worse than 3rd world exploitation where poor people again are taken advantage of .
It is also an insult to women which should not be tolerated in modern society.

	10-06-2003 05:50									#50
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btw I voted for banana.

I don't feel it is unethical, but I do feel it is very demeaning to women, yet I'm still turned on by it what does that say about me?

	10-06-2003 05:53									#51
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You're a Monster, diss

	10-06-2003 05:53									#52
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A whoremonger

	10-06-2003 05:54									#53
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quote: Not nessecarily unethical, though I do belive it could be should it become an obsession.

Agreed Shi. I saw the thread, but I wanted to let things get rolling somewhat.

I don't agree that pornography should be banned, though it should be restricted to adults. Same concerns with free speech apply as elsewhere, even though I'd really like to clamp down, the consequences of doing so are very far reaching.

Pornography can be harmful and damaging as it distorts normal relationships between persons, if it becomes obsessive and habitual.

	10-06-2003 06:12									#54
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diss, sex, under the right circumstances, can be lovely. however, in those cases, it's usually called love-making.

sex often found in porn, unfortunately, often looks disgusting--the women are often pug-fugly, the men creepy, and the situation obscenely grotesque, and the action just...
it makes my skin crawl, sometimes, and i feel dirty after seeing it.

then again, maybe it's just cause i like the romance and the foreplay parts too, and i've never seen either in porn.

	10-06-2003 06:14									#55
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quote: Selling your body is a disgusting byproduct of Capitalism

byproduct . I assume you don't have a job? At least now we can sell it instead of being forced to give it to someone .

	10-06-2003 06:29									#56
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When I think of this issue I am reminded of the book by Tom Clancy entitled "Without Remorse." In this book, a former Navy Seal rescues a runaway prostitute, falls in love with her and wipes out her pimp in a gunbattle. The story, which may be typical of prostitutes, was that she was lured into prostitution by the pimp and kept there against her will by being constantly strung out on drugs and by being subjected to emotional and physical abuse. Tom Clancy's character learns to regret using prostitutes while he was serving in Vietnam. He began to see that using a prostitute was not a consensual act between adults, but was a form of abuse of woman.

We also know from studies that most women who become prostitutes come from broken families and/or were sexually abused when they were young.

With respect to women in pornography, clearly what they are doing is a form of prostitution. The difference between being a female porn star and a prostitute though is that typically is no "pimp." Even so, the women who enter this business are typically psychologically damaged in some fashion as are most women who enter prostitution. Further, many, if not, most female porn star become quickly addicted to drugs and have to stay in the business to pay for their habit. The addiction to drugs seems to indicate deeply seeded psychological problems.

To the extent what I say here is true, viewing pornography is not harmless because it promotes the abuse of women. Clearly we prohibit child pornography because we know that children are unable to consent. However my thesis here is that many female porn stars enter a porn business because are they were previously subject to abuse and have significant psychological problems. They become porn stars because they feel worthless as human beings. Many stay as porn stars because they develop a drug habit.

I realize that simply making pornography illegal will not stop women from becoming porn stars just as illegalizing prostitution will not stop woman from becoming prostitutes. What I think should be done is to "regulate" the business so that women who enter the business are required to have psychological counseling and are also required to remain drug-free.

So bottom-line is, yes. Both making and using pornography are unethical to the extent that they promote the abuse of women.

	10-06-2003 06:31									#57
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Speaking more as a humanist I also think it gives a grossly distorted view of human relationships and sexuality. Then viewers of porn inflict that distortion on real life relationships.

Ugh!! Disaster!

	10-06-2003 06:33									#58
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I'm glad it distorts real life. I mean would you really want your wife to be making as much noise as most of the women in porn flicks do?

	10-06-2003 06:34									#59
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quote: With respect to women in pornography, clearly what they are doing is a form of prostitution.

What about us that want to make prostitution legal?

quote: What I think should be done is to "regulate" the business so that women who enter the business are required to have psychological counseling and are also required to remain drug-free.

Would you also allow prostitution then if there was counselling and drug tests and protection? After all, you said that making it illegal doesn't stop it from happening.

	10-06-2003 06:37									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed diss, sex, under the right circumstances, can be lovely. however, in those cases, it's usually called love-making. sex often found in porn, unfortunately, often looks disgusting--the women are often pug-fugly, the men creepy, and the situation obscenely grotesque, and the action just... it makes my skin crawl, sometimes, and i feel dirty after seeing it. then again, maybe it's just cause i like the romance and the foreplay parts too, and i've never seen either in porn.

well ideally that love-making sounds great.

But I'm sometimes seen as creepy, and I'm often forced to be with pug-fugly women. So my sex life can kind of relate to the porn industry . Some of us just weren't born beautiful.