10-06-2003 06:41									#61
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ned, doesn't the girl die in without remorse, which is why kelley goes to fvck sh|t up?

in any case, what i really don't like is girls these days seem to be finding the notion of porn not so repulsive--note those girl tees which have "porn star" written on them in cutsey letters. it's quite simply, disturbing.

i have no problem with the sexual revolution and empowerment for women to choose who, when, and how they have their lovers, but that doesn't mean porn, which is disgusting and often times manipulative of its victi--actresses, should be glorified.

	10-06-2003 06:46									#62
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I think porn as in a depiction of a sexual fantasy can not possibly be unethical.

I don't find public display of sexual behaviour immoral, like many religious people do, thus no reason to ban porn.

There are two major concerns:
1) Exceptionally young people getting access to porn and getting confused / traumatized. I know that I had been given accidentally premature access to porn, but I simply didn't get what I saw, and ignored it. I wasn't traumatized. But I do have to say that my parents were very liberal about sex and I had alot of freedom to enquire and learn.

I do suspect that many kids who don't have this freedom, may see porn as a guide for real life sex - which it isn't. In such cases it can promote demeaning and unpleasant (did you ever see two pron sex partners communicate?) and even brutal (in cases of rape).

But, I don't accept the claim that since brutal porn may promote unsual behaviour in people, it should be banned. After all, a moron can watch a film which features wreckless car driving, and go out and run people over. However, we can't censor films for that sake. Neither should porn or computer games be censored. Often such things are a mental release.

Saying porn leads to rape is just as 'advanced' and 'humanist' as saying that listening to rock music leads to an immoral life, or that listening to metal leads to cat sacrifice.

2) People actually getting abused and raped for the sake of a film.

But that is a case of actual rape, or abuse and is a criminal case, rather than a moral one. I treat it just as if someone would be actually killed in an action feature.


Men - watch out. Feminists who claim that porn is degrading might soon decide that oral sex is degrading. You help with the former, and they'll slap you with the latter.


As for violent or sick stuff - I'd prefer a person watching a voilent flick and masturbating to it, rather than going out and acting it out.

Fantasies IMO are great as long as we don't act them out.

	10-06-2003 06:47									#63
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Q: Why not? If they want to do it and feel it empowers them... who are we to say it doesn't? Porn shouldn't be repulsive, and it's good that women aren't find it to be that way. Hell, maybe they'll make porn that you don't find repulsive one day .

	10-06-2003 06:50									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm glad it distorts real life. I mean would you really want your wife to be making as much noise as most of the women in porn flicks do?

And wake the children up?

	10-06-2003 06:50									#65
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Oh and as for the claim that some women are doing porn since they have no choise....
well what kind of an excuse is that?

how does it make it any less voluntary?

It simply gives the person another choise. She could also go clean doodoo from public bathroom floors.
Much more degrading and less fun. (unless you're into doodoo fetish LOL)

Would you agree to the following sentance:
I would prefer a woman to be uneimployed than to be able to gain money for sexual acts?

	10-06-2003 06:52									#66
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quote: It simply gives the person another choise. She could also go clean doodoo from public bathroom floors

Yep, definetly

Porn pays better than minimum wage, which is why most of these girls do it.

	10-06-2003 06:53									#67
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siro: see, those fantasies bit... as i understand it, that's why hentai gets so popular. i suppose then, whatever gets them off, but...

imran: as for porn that might not be so repulsive? well, i'll be looking for it, sorta, but i'm not holding my breath.

	10-06-2003 06:53									#68
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oral sex is degrading to women. No matter how you look at it.

Now days men are willing to do perform oral sex to even up the degradation.

	10-06-2003 06:57									#69
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quote: i don't understand the fascination with it. it's the same thing, over and over again, really. it's also usually quite disgusting.

quote: Then viewers of porn inflict that distortion on real life relationships.

My guess is that nobody is a loser enough to actually learn all it's things considering sex from pornographic images and films.

quote: Selling your body is a disgusting byproduct of Capitalism that has allowed the Rich to abuse innocent poor people who need some money.

Actually, almost all jobs where you sell anything, in any way, long-term or by yourself, are about selling yourself, in one way or another.

quote: I don't feel it is unethical, but I do feel it is very demeaning to women, yet I'm still turned on by it what does that say about me?

You're a loser, brainwashed by corporations to believe that you should be 'turned on' by such things?

quote: I worry about the effect it has on people, especially children and young adults. I also worry about the effect on the people making it. I don't however support a ban on it.

Same here.

quote: in any case, what i really don't like is girls these days seem to be finding the notion of porn not so repulsive--note those girl tees which have "porn star" written on them in cutsey letters. it's quite simply, disturbing. i have no problem with the sexual revolution and empowerment for women to choose who, when, and how they have their lovers, but that doesn't mean porn, which is disgusting and often times manipulative of its victi--actresses, should be glorified.

It's all a matter of perspective, actually.

	10-06-2003 06:58									#70
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diss, what if the woman herself doesn't think it's degrading?

	10-06-2003 06:59									#71
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Q, what if the woman herself doesn't think that porn is degrading?

	10-06-2003 06:59									#72
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I fail to see how oral sex is degrading to women, or to men for that matter.

	10-06-2003 07:00									#73
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well then it depends on what the guy thinks when he is recieving it.

Now if both of them don't think it is degrading then well... I can't answer that I guess it is a matter of personal opinion.

	10-06-2003 07:07									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: With respect to women in pornography, clearly what they are doing is a form of prostitution. What about us that want to make prostitution legal? quote: What I think should be done is to "regulate" the business so that women who enter the business are required to have psychological counseling and are also required to remain drug-free. Would you also allow prostitution then if there was counselling and drug tests and protection? After all, you said that making it illegal doesn't stop it from happening.

I think that regulation of prostitution with an aim at protecting the women involved, keeping them drug free and providing them pyschological counselling may be preferable to illegalization which simply causes extreme abuse.

	10-06-2003 07:09									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed ned, doesn't the girl die in without remorse, which is why kelley goes to fvck sh|t up? in any case, what i really don't like is girls these days seem to be finding the notion of porn not so repulsive--note those girl tees which have "porn star" written on them in cutsey letters. it's quite simply, disturbing. i have no problem with the sexual revolution and empowerment for women to choose who, when, and how they have their lovers, but that doesn't mean porn, which is disgusting and often times manipulative of its victi--actresses, should be glorified.

Yeah, she was killed by the pimp. But Kelly had begun to regret using prostitutes before that happened. The murder of the girl justified execution of the pimp, though.

	10-06-2003 07:14									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Oh and as for the claim that some women are doing porn since they have no choise.... well what kind of an excuse is that? how does it make it any less voluntary? It simply gives the person another choise. She could also go clean doodoo from public bathroom floors. Much more degrading and less fun. (unless you're into doodoo fetish LOL) Would you agree to the following sentance: I would prefer a woman to be uneimployed than to be able to gain money for sexual acts?

Maybe the US is peculiar in that the women who enter both the porn and prostitution business are many times seriously sick people. They need help. As I said, I would not make it illegal, but require counselling and require them to remain drug free.

I must say that I was totally convince of the ethics on this issue after reading Clancy's book. I recommend it to all as a good read.

	10-06-2003 07:19									#77
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While people may claim to think that Oral Sex is degrading, polls about sexual activities preference show that being on the recieving end of oral sex is the No.1 thing for both men and women.

	10-06-2003 07:19									#78
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imran, that's a good point.

i still think it's disgusting, though, and not to my tastes.

	10-06-2003 07:22									#79
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Look, prostitution in Israel is forbidden. Thus it is ungoverned and flourishes in criminal parts of town. Women are mistreated, traded and enslaved.

Had we legal ways of getting sex services, sex wouldn't have become such a rare commodity and criminal trade of women would go down.

	10-06-2003 07:23									#80
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quote: I fail to see how oral sex is degrading to women, or to men for that matter.

Many of the feminists that think porn is degrading also think oral sex is as well... look at the relative position of the man and woman when the man is recieving (especially if not lying down).

	10-06-2003 07:24									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Look, prostitution in Israel is forbidden. Thus it is ungoverned and flourishes in criminal parts of town. Women are mistreated, traded and enslaved. Had we legal ways of getting sex services, sex wouldn't have become such a rare commodity and criminal trade of women would go down.

Agreed. The sex business is best regulated to protect people who want to avoid it (most families), to protect people who use it (from diseases) and to protect people who are in it from abuse.

	10-06-2003 07:27									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Many of the feminists that think porn is degrading also think oral sex is as well... look at the relative position of the man and woman when the man is recieving (especially if not lying down).

Feminists should recieve (or give) a cunni, that would relax them

	10-06-2003 07:30									#83
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quote: Feminists should recieve (or give) a cunni, that would relax them

Chauvinist

	10-06-2003 07:40									#84
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Spiffor, like that will ever happen.. we should be more realistic, like maybe they will finally start wearing bras, using deodorants, having at least minimal make up and get rid of those lose shirts, then take some anger managment courses.

	10-06-2003 08:49									#85
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If pornography is unethical, then sex must be unethical, so having children and reproducing must be unethical. Let's be safe an institute mandatory sterilization at birth for all humans.

	10-06-2003 08:54									#86
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sava, im way ahead of you. lets just kill people before they can reproduce

	10-06-2003 08:56									#87
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yeah, and let's call it "liberation" so people don't get wise to what we're doing

	10-06-2003 08:58									#88
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let the liberation from unethicalness begin!

	10-06-2003 09:11									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Sava If pornography is unethical, then sex must be unethical, so having children and reproducing must be unethical. Let's be safe an institute mandatory sterilization at birth for all humans.

Sava, do you believe someone should allowed to play Russian roulette for an audience so long as they or their designated beneficiaries are well paid?

I have to ask this question of you can because you seem too completing fail to understand the damage prostitution does to women.

	10-06-2003 09:39									#90
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Ned are you basing your views from a Tom Clancy book.

And I can provide a link to a website where you can talk to real life prostitutes. I'd like to see their response when you call them sick.

I think sex in general is degrading towards women. And I feel no shame in being turned on by it. So I stand by my earlier comments that oral sex and most sexual positions are degrading towards women (esp. doggie style). But I guess that is just the way biology made up men and women with respect to their genitals and body structure.