09-06-2003 05:19									#1
	Zimbabwe Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Why is the Western world not taking action to remove Mugabe?? How come he walk freely through England on his way to other nations??
He has recently had the cheek to say that he wont tolerate UK and the US supporting alternative political groups - whats he going to us, we'd destroy them quicker than Iraq. so why do we tolerate what is going on there??
Why havent we liberated Zimbabwe like we did Iraq, or more recently congo, or it just because those being oppressed are White??
If we so interested in being the world policemen we should be acting against this dictator now!!

	09-06-2003 05:20									#2
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Mugabe is a racist, facist swine but I suspect we have come to expect nothing less from African dictators.

	09-06-2003 05:23									#3
	Re: Zimbabwe Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Rothy Why is the Western world not taking action to remove Mugabe?? How come he walk freely through England on his way to other nations??

Don't you mean France? They were the one's throwing thier weight around in order to allow him to travel through the EU while the organization had sanctions on him.

	09-06-2003 05:25									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Mugabe's not racist, he's just playing one to gain support... a bit like british BNP.

I wouldn't also call him fascist, though a corrupted socialist, he is.

quote: Why havent we liberated Zimbabwe like we did Iraq, or more recently congo

Wait... 'you' have 'liberated' Congo?

quote: If we so interested in being the world policemen we should be acting against this dictator now!!

Ya, 'we' should... but there is no oil in Zimbabwe, so I doubt that US is interested, and other nations don't have the necessary militiary.

	09-06-2003 06:03									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"Mugabe's not racist, he's just playing one to gain support... a bit like british BNP"

Arent the BNP racist but playing non-racist to gain support (something I find wholly more disturbing)?

Mugabe is, in our eyes, a bit of a b&stard, but unless he attacks another nation, or there is a civil war with a viable side we can assist (although that is open to interpretation with the MDC), then I dont see war being justified (in my eyes that is).

The reason why it hasnt happened thus far is because of the lack of political and economic capital to be gained by such a military action. Also consider that if this was done by the British, or indeed anyone who represents the West, this would only serve to fuel the resentment in the majority population of Zimbabwe against the British and the West for colonialisation and neo-colonialisation. As such, rebuilding efforts would be even harder in Zimbabwe than in Iraq!!!

It would seem that the majority of Zimbabwans for one reason or another (be that fear but objectively, that is irrelevant), are in favour of Mugabe (and I'm not looking at last years "elections" as my reasoning, more of a general impression one gets), so that would completely rule a war out, although this support might change with the economy, I believe the rate of inflation is over 200%.

	09-06-2003 06:06									#6
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

"They were the one's throwing thier weight around in order to allow him to travel through the EU"

I think they allowed him to go to France in order to have a political conference. Paris is somewhat safer than Harare.

	09-06-2003 06:09									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: If we so interested in being the world policemen we should be acting against this dictator now!!

If we are the worlds policeman, we should promptly give that badge back to the UN, release the legitimate policemans handcuffs, and repair the damage done to that honourable organisation through US/UK imperialism and the war, years of corruption and inefficiency, and capitalise on repairing its faults and emphasising its many successes.

	09-06-2003 06:11									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

We are waiting for Mugabes nuclear program to pick up little more.. it's still 1 year from him having nukes, so expect liberating in.. 6 months. It's too hot in Africa right now. Soldiers hate warm water and diarrhea they'll get there.

	09-06-2003 06:16									#9
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Should have just stuck a MI6 sniper on a rooftop in France and taken him out while he was there, would have been rather amusing to see it on the news. Is Zimbabwes food production still dropping ?

	09-06-2003 06:20									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I figure it's cheap just to go there and bust our ways in, get Mugabe and build a sauna so we can take him to the back of it. I'm sure, that the people of Zimbabwe would be so much better without him, and it would be humanitarian action. It would do more good than harm, and I think there is a good chance of the people not getting any revenge strikes from some rebels, because we might just shoot them too when were at it.

It could be cheap too. Definitely worth it. And while were at it, we could remove some safe havens from earlier dictators like Imi Adin...

	09-06-2003 06:21									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I mean, what kind of levarage does Mugabe use to keep us quiet? What kind of secret weapon he has? Can't be that good, let's just waste him.

	09-06-2003 06:25									#12
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: I mean, what kind of levarage does Mugabe use to keep us quiet? What kind of secret weapon he has? Can't be that good, let's just waste him.

quote: Mugabe is, in our eyes, a bit of a b&stard, but unless he attacks another nation, or there is a civil war with a viable side we can assist (although that is open to interpretation with the MDC), then I dont see war being justified (in my eyes that is).

Hippies...

quote: we should promptly give that badge back to the UN

Yes, UN needs desperately a reform and some executive power. Fat chance of getting any, there isn't any political will, anywhere.

quote: Arent the BNP racist but playing non-racist to gain support (something I find wholly more disturbing)?

You actually think that they would've been smart enought to grab so much support, if they would actually believe the rascist **** they're announcing (not the whole party, but the core of it)?

	09-06-2003 06:26									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

USA CIA Boogie Man is responsible, etc

	09-06-2003 06:29									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well, as war in Iraq was possible, I can't see no problems in assassinating Mugabe. That can't be too hard for us, and who would argue against it, raise their voices? Zimbabwe, or the rest of the Africa wouldn't be mad because of it. Sure, some other dictators like Mugabe might sweat, but who cares. It can't be question of the money, since killing him can't be that expensive.
Problem is, who willl take over after him, but I'm sure we have another retired general who could lead a country? ;D

	09-06-2003 06:34									#15
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Zimbabwe, or the rest of the Africa wouldn't be mad because of it [assasinating Robert Mugabe]

Actually, AFAIK, Mugabe has rallied a lot of support with his anti-EU/US speeches. Don't underestimate the power of the stupid people.

Still, it seems that the more we wait, the worse the situation will get, so what are we waiting for? Let's deal with this problem - now.

Blah... idealist viewpoint, that was.

To gain maximum PR-support from this, forces with the necessary powers will probably wait until the situation gets as disastrous as it can get. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

	09-06-2003 06:39									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Tuome, Ok.. I haven't followed the situation in a long time so I am not up to date. I feel the same as you, it will only get worse with time. Anyway, his allies are not strong enough to impose great threat to western countries.

	09-06-2003 06:40									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Besides, if someone has something against killing people, it would be just as easy to kidnap him or something. Then trial him at Belgium, where everyone can sue everyone. Or he can just disappear... or send ultimatum that he has to step down. Something at least.

	09-06-2003 07:39									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by elijah "They were the one's throwing thier weight around in order to allow him to travel through the EU" I think they allowed him to go to France in order to have a political conference. Paris is somewhat safer than Harare.

Your point is?

	09-06-2003 07:55									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

That we should be nice to Mugabe and make sure he has a safe,comfortbale conference??

And Yes, I imagine Mugabe has a lot of support among anti US blacks, but sod that - this isnt IRAQ, there is detailed proof of a valid case for War out there, Amnesty International could provide all the proof needed to shock people into agreeance...

	09-06-2003 08:37									#20
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Zimbabwe doesn't occupy a strategically significant location, it does not boast a wealth of natural resources to make it economically worthwhile, and we've used up our "take over other nations" cards for the time being.

	09-06-2003 08:42									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The violence in Zimbabwe is low (in fact, the counter argument is that people pay more attention to beatings and a few hundread imprisionments in Zimbabwe because the victims are sometimes white, while thousand upon thousands of deaths elsewhere in Africa don;t count cause the victims are black) compared to the rest of Africa. He is a dictator, but in the list of world hellholes, zimbabwe is not yet even top 10. Plus, as Boris said, nothing of interest for the West to get involved.

	09-06-2003 08:44									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Tuomerehu Ya, 'we' should... but there is no oil in Zimbabwe

Nail, head. Head, nail.


(For those for whom English is 2nd language, "to hit the nail on the head" is an expression meaning to do something with accuracy).

Anyway, Mugabe provides a convenient example of African leadership to laugh at without actually taking on the burden of African admin and screwing it up yet again.

In other words, who is to say we'd be any better?

	09-06-2003 08:44									#23
	Suffering from ads?

I find it odd that of all the world's dicators, Mugabe brings out so much venom in people. Let's face it, in the top one hundred most brutal dicators of the 20th Century, Mugabe wouldn't even make the list. He's a thug, but put things in some perpective. Our president has killed more people than Mugabe, and that not including Iraq.

On the very top of the list of worst dicatorships existing today I'd probably put SLORC, the dictatorship of Burma (Myanmar as SLORC calls it). There are many worse places than Zimbabwe. I think it has to do with the fact that Mugabe represses white folks, and that's just not right. It's not like I see much discussion of the Black people who get beat up and killed by Mugabe's followers.

	09-06-2003 08:51									#24
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's to bad it's illegal to assassinate foreign politicians. It seems like a bullet at midnight could solve the worst of Rhodesia's problems; if it goes through Mugabe's head.

Last edited by Oerdin on 09-06-2003 at 09:25

	09-06-2003 09:16									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Yup, like there are no more radical folks in his party that, given him out, would not mind doing abit more than moving white people forcibly....

Oh, and Zimbabwe, not Rhodesia. This is 2003, not 1980.

	09-06-2003 09:24									#26
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Mugabe renamed it. The communists renamed St. Petersburg and a military junta renamed Burma. When they were gone the name was/will be changed back. Will the same happen to Rhodesia? We'll have to wait to find out but I suspect the people will be happy to shead any changes the dictator Mugabe made during his reign just as it is once again Congo and not Zaire.

	09-06-2003 09:26									#27
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Maybe the vast majority of the populationm preffered not to have their country named after a racist prigg.My guess, if Zimbabwe is a democracy..never.

	09-06-2003 09:28									#28
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Zimbabwe has not once been a democracy has it?

BTW, internationally, it is recognized as Zimbabwe, not Rhodesia. Rhodesia was the name used by the white minority regime correct me if I am wrong.

	09-06-2003 09:28									#29
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's to bad it's illegal to assassinate foreign politicians. It seems like a bullet at midnight could solve the worst of Rhodesia's problems; if it goes through Mugabe's head.

I cannot see that helping feed Eastern Africa, bring the rains, restore democracy (Mugabe doesn't do actual torturing) or in any way guarantee that his successor is more successful.

You think one bullet would end the problems of Zimbabwe? That's Mugabe's argument. He's just not sure which bullet it is, so he keeps firing them.

	09-06-2003 09:29									#30
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Remember Zaire became Congo because Congo was a word invented by evil white Imperialists, but, once an evil black dictator sullied the name Zaire the people were very happy to return to the name of Congo.

It's kind of like an unpopularity contest where you win as long as the other guy is a bigger SOB.