09-06-2003 21:05									#1
	US Becoming Weirder and Very Anachronistic Full PM-box? Change here!

Original Report
Globe and Mail Feature

quote: Take a look at how Americans and Canadians responded to this statement in an Environics survey: "The father of the family must be the master of his own house." In 1992, 42 per cent of Americans said the statement was true, compared with 26 per cent of Canadians. In 2000, 49 per cent of Americans agreed with it, compared with 18 per cent of Canadians. Mr. Adams calls this divergence the most astonishing polling result he has ever encountered.

Like, WTF?

quote: On this issue there's a consensus across Canada. Regional differences are barely outside the margin of statistical error: Quebec, at 15 per cent, is least likely to think father should be master, followed by British Columbia (17 per cent), Ontario and Atlantic Canada (18 per cent) and Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, all at 21 per cent. But the United States is regionally divided: New England is least chauvinistic at 29 per cent, followed by the Plains states (36 per cent) and the Midwest (46 per cent). Above the national average are Texarkana (54 per cent) and the Deep South, where 71 per cent believe the gentleman of the house should be master.

Letting go of the fact that 18 percent of Canadians is 18 percent too many, what planet is the Deep South from? This almost makes we wish that Trudeau had not chosen to destroy the Canadian nuclear arsenal. Nuking is too good for 'em.

quote: Interestingly, the difference between America's religious skeptics, the atheists (34 per cent), and the least skeptical, who are the born-again Christians (62 per cent), is 28 points. That's a big gap and evidence of the larger culture divide in America. In Canada, the gap between groups is less extreme. The group least likely to think father should be master -- women (10 per cent) -- is just 17 points lower than the group most likely to agree -- those earning $10,000 a year or less (28 per cent).

Just more proof that atheism is more moral than religion.

	09-06-2003 21:38									#2
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"It's tough to build a country to match a dream," Pierre Trudeau is once reported to have said.

In fact, that appears to be what Canadians are succeeding in doing.

"It may turn out to be an anachronism," said Mr. Adams of Environics. In a world of six billion people, he says, a society defined by idealism, egalitarianism, personal fulfilment, tolerance and diversity "may be a dream that fails."

Oh please, what a puff piece of typical American style nationalism. This is just embarrassing. Trudeau 'built this country' and we're all 'living the Canadian Dream'
I'm gonna be sick.

Heh, check out Alberta pushin' up our Redneck Quotient though!

	10-06-2003 02:13									#3
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo what planet is the Deep South from?

Earth. May I ask from what part of the Solar Sysytem you hail from?

	10-06-2003 02:19									#4
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quote: Take a look at how Americans and Canadians responded to this statement in an Environics survey: "The father of the family must be the master of his own house."

quote: Above the national average are Texarkana (54 per cent) and the Deep South, where 71 per cent believe the gentleman of the house should be master.

???

There is a huge difference between "must be" and "should be". Did people even know what they were being asked?

	10-06-2003 02:43									#5
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The USA doesnt even deserve my usual ribbing on this one!!!!

	10-06-2003 02:48									#6
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Terrible........

	10-06-2003 02:49									#7
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if we could cut out the south and mountain states we might be ok

	10-06-2003 02:50									#8
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I'm the master of my domain.

	10-06-2003 02:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 if we could cut out the south ... we might be ok

You wouldn't let us go when we tried to leave before. Now we like it here.

	10-06-2003 02:55									#10
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none of my ancestors were in the country at the time of the civil war. not my fault. and you only like it here because you run the show.

	10-06-2003 03:00									#11
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Just more proof that atheism is more moral than religion.

Atheism is more moral than religion???

I'd respond to that absurd statement if it wasn't for the fact that I am rolling on the floor with uncontrollable laughter.

	10-06-2003 03:03									#12
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Can anyone find more data on this research? How large was their sample size? They said they asked 100 such questions, did that mean 100 different questions, or the same question 100 times? If the latter, then the sample size is way too small.

	10-06-2003 03:10									#13
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm the master of my domain.

I'm the king of the county.

	10-06-2003 03:12									#14
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If the polling technique is serious, these figures are really really terrible. What a bigoted place is the land of the brave ?!?
(it would need many, many people asked to have a serious sample on each of the categories - if there are only 100 born agains in the sample, or 100 southerners in the sample, then the comparisons between these categories are irrelevant. However, the poll in general can remain relevant)

	10-06-2003 03:14									#15
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Atheism is more moral than religion??? I'd respond to that absurd statement if it wasn't for the fact that I am rolling on the floor with uncontrollable laughter.

just because religion has a set moral code doesnt mean more people live up to it. athiests only have their own moral code to live by which is sometimes more moral than a religious one, and sometimes less.

	10-06-2003 03:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If the polling technique is serious, these figures are really really terrible. What a bigoted place is the land of the brave ?!? (it would need many, many people asked to have a serious sample on each of the categories - if there are only 100 born agains in the sample, or 100 southerners in the sample, then the comparisons between these categories are irrelevant. However, the poll in general can remain relevant)

None of my friends would support the idea of a father dominated household. So it is quite suprising to see poll numbers that contradict the reality I live in.

	10-06-2003 03:17									#17
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quote: There is a huge difference between "must be" and "should be".

Exactly! It seems some parts of this poll may be flawed. I don't see why people should be maligned for thinking that the person that brings more money home should be the master of the household (and usually men bring home more money than women in these days).

	10-06-2003 03:19									#18
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imran, thats so capitalistic of you!

	10-06-2003 03:20									#19
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So, what exactly is the problem?

	10-06-2003 03:21									#20
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Well, Leo does link to the study. Anyoine care to check it out? I don't.

	10-06-2003 03:22									#21
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Thank you .

I mean really... FIRST you have to find out what 'master' of the household means to the people being asked. If it means that the 'master' gets to decide ultimatly what the household will spend its money on, then I have no problem with the primary wage earner deciding that, whether it be man or woman.

I mean, there are only two of them... one of them has to break the tie. After all, how do you guys expect to get that 60 inch widescreen HDTV?

	10-06-2003 03:24									#22
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i think master means "hoosier daddy!"

	10-06-2003 03:26									#23
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 i think master means "hoosier daddy!"

So it just means that they are more willing to experiment in the bedroom.

	10-06-2003 03:27									#24
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[quote]
There is a huge difference between "must be" and "should be"
[/quote[

Not really, intent and perceived necessity are not dissimilar, but intent shows a voluntary submission to a particular way of thinking, in this case, male dominance, whereas with "must be", the norms one has been brought up with would take precidence, as one takes actions within the sociological context.

If people are choosing to intend for this to be the case, that is indeed a disturbing indictment on US society.

	10-06-2003 03:29									#25
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Why? If men are the primary wage earners (which in many parts they are), why is it wrong for people to think they should be the masters of the home?

	10-06-2003 03:31									#26
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I liked it on 'The Man Show' when they tried to get a petition signed to end women's sufferage... that was funny...

I think I should be the master of my home, my wife disagrees, and I think my dog won the battle?...oh well

	10-06-2003 03:32									#27
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Exactly! It seems some parts of this poll may be flawed. I don't see why people should be maligned for thinking that the person that brings more money home should be the master of the household (and usually men bring home more money than women in these days).

The poll was asking whether the male should be on control on the basis of being male, not whether the person who brings the most money home should be in control on the basis of being that person.

quote: A survey of more than 38,000 people in 44 countries, conducted from July to October 2002 on issues of interest to the entire planet, it was one of the largest and best I've seen (though I must declare that my firm, Environics, was the project's Canadian partner).

I think this is the same survey.

You can take the online version of this survey (the original was done offline) here.

I am:
http://fireandice.environics.net/surveys/fireandice/imageGen.asp?sid=1&x=0.74&y=-3.39&sidImage=true

	10-06-2003 03:32									#28
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because its unrealistic and eliminates the equality that should be inherent in a marrige...

	10-06-2003 03:33									#29
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Not really, intent and perceived necessity are not dissimilar, but intent shows a voluntary submission to a particular way of thinking, in this case, male dominance, whereas with "must be", the norms one has been brought up with would take precidence, as one takes actions within the sociological context.

You don't think that the gap between voluntary submission and forced submission to perceived necessities is a huge difference? To me it's pretty fundamental - maybe it's just 'cos I'm a liberal (), but I get uncomfortable when people start declaring what other people "must" do or think.

My opinion on the topic is that it makes no difference whether the "master of the house" is the mother or the father of the family. I can't see any intrinsic advantages to it being either one way or the other.

	10-06-2003 03:34									#30
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quote: why is it wrong for people to think they should be the masters of the home?

Because who suffers in the process? Just because one provides and is the primary wage earner, does that necessarily mean that one buys a position of authority? What about the women, who often in these homes are bringing up the children or indeed maintaining the home? An equally, if not more, important job. Besides, it is my opinion that no adult should be demeaned and reduced to inferior status compared to another adult, whilst they are in one home. The general idea among my social circles is that when one agrees to let an adult into the home, one agrees that they are entitled to the same rights, except ownership of that home.

Also what of the increasing number of homes that dont fit that model? Often now it is the women who are working as the primary earner AND looking after the kids, while the men are often away, yet the men still expect to be superior.