12-06-2003 23:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant In my opinion the detriment to the United States are I believe the true value of America is in the heartland, hence the term.

So the true value of America is in a minority of it's population? Well hell, why even allow us folks on the coast to vote at all?

And yes, I realize the irony of that statement coming from a Floridiot.

	12-06-2003 23:24									#32
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defiant, this is for elections of president only! my god man, are you a product of wisconsins public education or what?

i really dont think californias interests are represented enough in the federal government despite how much they contribute to the nation and how many people they have in congress. i personally advocate california abandoning the United States but that is about as much reality as the south rising again.

the problem though is everyone else in the nation hates california because it is so different from their area. despite california being a great state and contributing a lot people still hate it, for either idiotic reasons, or because of political reasons, or because they have different values than most californians.

	12-06-2003 23:25									#33
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You should have a greater GDP but your costs are higher, I am looking for a list of states the contribute or take, net, I blelieve New York was a taker, I will find the proof. Go ahead cut the farm subsidies, in my opinion there are too many little farmers, if they consolidate they will be just fine. Go to Canada and grab their food, if you can, I believe they import a great deal from us. The cheese, well you are just wrong. That's right, now more Miller or Budweiser or Jack Daniels for you.

You and the Clinton's deserve each other, Hillary doesn't represent to people of New York, she represents herself and only herself.

	12-06-2003 23:27									#34
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New York is a subsidizer of the country, like California. Most of the rural states are dependents on the big states.

	12-06-2003 23:32									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch The EC system would be improved if States could split up their votes between candidates.

They can, some do. Each state can choose how do distribute its electoral votes.

	12-06-2003 23:32									#36
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The electoral college is anti-Democratic (as in Democracy, not the party). I say get rid of it.

	12-06-2003 23:30									#37
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budweiser and miller are crap. i do happen to fancy JD, but im sure i could find an alternative bourbon, or even higher up an alternative whiskey if i had to.

	12-06-2003 23:35									#38
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quote: The electoral college is anti-Democratic (as in Democracy, not the party)

So is the entire government. It was to prevent mob rule.

And Imran likes it that way

	12-06-2003 23:37									#39
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when hes right, hes right

	12-06-2003 23:40									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant You should have a greater GDP but your costs are higher, I am looking for a list of states the contribute or take, net, I blelieve New York was a taker, I will find the proof.

Oh come on. This defies all logic. Consider all the money generated by New York just by NYC alone and Wall Street. Midtown Manhattan and Wall Street are the 1st and 3rd largest financial districts in the world in terms of volume of business. Then we have the other coastal states, like California and New Jersey, both of which are MAJOR generators of U.S. tax revenue.

quote: Go ahead cut the farm subsidies, in my opinion there are too many little farmers, if they consolidate they will be just fine. Go to Canada and grab their food, if you can, I believe they import a great deal from us.

Canada is the largest single foreign importer of food into the United States. You are aware that the Canadian breadbasket is larger than our own, yes?

quote: The cheese, well you are just wrong. That's right, now more Miller or Budweiser or Jack Daniels for you.

"now more"? Well, it would be punishment to have more of that! Considering I'd much rather have a Saranac, Sam Adams, Brooklyn Lager or a Jameson, all of which are vastly superior products, I can't say I will suffer much!

quote: You and the Clinton's deserve each other, Hillary doesn't represent to people of New York, she represents herself and only herself.

Yeah, that must be why she's got good favorability ratings among her constituents!

	12-06-2003 23:50									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I believe the third time.......

You'd think that you'd get the msg by now.

	12-06-2003 23:54									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They can, some do. Each state can choose how do distribute its electoral votes.

How many and often? I was under the impression that it was standard to block vote.

	12-06-2003 23:56									#43
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exactly big crunch...too many of the electors dont want to go against what the state says even if they represent an urban area or a rural area.

	12-06-2003 23:56									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I was under the impression that it was standard to block vote.

The voters are under no Constitutional obligation to follow the vote of the State that sent them.

	13-06-2003 00:01									#45
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SO it is totally legal and will be unchallenged if all EC voters decided to ignore the electorate and vote for, say, Ross Perot?

Don't individual states have laws on how they conduct their EC voting?

	13-06-2003 00:04									#46
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quote: SO it is totally legal and will be unchallenged if all EC voters decided to ignore the electorate and vote for, say, Ross Perot?

I believe so, yes.

	13-06-2003 00:06									#47
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Theoretically, I could organize a massive conspiracy and ask all the electors to cast their votes for me without recieving a single popular vote (assuming I was eligible to be president). In practice though, this doesn't happen and the custom of voting for the guy who won the state is followed.

	13-06-2003 00:07									#48
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It shall be got rid of so long as 1/4 or more of the states percieve an advantage form it.

	13-06-2003 00:11									#49
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Except for Defiant who wants to remain 10 times more powerful than the lesser NYer known as Boris, I don't remember having read anybody actually defending the EC. I've seen people telling that "it's not that bad", but only defiant seems to have told "It's good".

What makes the electoral college good ?

	13-06-2003 00:11									#50
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Yes, the EC can actually send in whatever the hell they want.

Personally, I'd like to see it removed, or I'd at least like to see Connecticut split up our votes to line up with the popular vote w/in the state. Not that CT has many votes anyway.

Thing is, CT usually votes Democratic for Pres (Gore won it easily). All the EC votes will go that way. So my vote will either 1) add to the clear majority; or 2) be futile. I vote anyway, for 3rd parties, but it has little to no effect.

It's the "winner takes all" thing that is the major problem, IMO. But without that, the EC is pointless - if the EC sent in votes that lined up with the popular vote, then we might as well just use the popular vote and do away with the EC.

-Arrian

	13-06-2003 00:12									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: SO it is totally legal and will be unchallenged if all EC voters decided to ignore the electorate and vote for, say, Ross Perot? I believe so, yes.

You really believe it will be unchallenged? Even if it is legal do you really believe people will accept it?

	13-06-2003 00:13									#52
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It's legal, but it's just not done.

-Arrian

	13-06-2003 00:14									#53
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It's legal... it may go challenged (who knows)... people probably won't accept it, but can't do anything about it anyway.

Actually, the people might accept it, because something BIG would have to have happened for the Democrat or Republican electors to vote for someone else.

	13-06-2003 00:16									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It's legal, but it's just not done. -Arrian

I've had a few drinks so I'm not on the ball.

That's the point I was trying to make to DinoDoc's post, in a rather roundabout way of letting posters come to the conclusion I was after. Basically the fact that its legal or constitutional is irrelevant, its the practicalities that we need to consider.

	13-06-2003 00:17									#55
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I believe it was done once .

One elector of one state voted for some third-party dude in an election. My bet was that he was never voted elector again .

	13-06-2003 00:18									#56
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Spiffor,
It puts Wisconsin on more of a equal footing with New York and most midwest states.
As for Victor's conspiracy, yea, that happens all the time, good reason for removing it.
I am still looking for some information for Boris to educate the boy.

	13-06-2003 00:19									#57
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Nah, that was an example to prove what is legally possible.

My reasons to hate the EC are because it essentially makes any vote I would cast for president not count.

	13-06-2003 00:24									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor What makes the electoral college good ?

But for the electorial college system, you would see the recounts and lawsuits that happened in some counties in Florida last time, happening in every large county in every state anytime you have a halfway close (withind couple million or so votes) presidential election.

	13-06-2003 00:24									#59
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But in a direct popular vote, you're vote (for a third party President) probably wouldn't count either .

	13-06-2003 00:26									#60
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I can't decide if Defiant is a DL of jimmytrick or Fez...

Keep looking for the non-existant proof that, somehow, Wisconsin is subsidizing New York.