13-06-2003 01:20									#91
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No they don't. If they did have the most influence, then who would be President right now?

	13-06-2003 01:22									#92
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell No they don't.

Which states have the most electoral votes?

	13-06-2003 01:23									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Boris, That is because the largest immigrant population comes in through California, New York, Florida, Texas and in all honesty when they get the chance to vote, easier than ever to get citizenship, how do you think they vote.

Oh dear god. So NOW we get your real problem. You don't like them brown foreigners having the same voting power as you. Obviously, the votes of real white Americans should count more than those phoney, dark Americans who just got off the boat a few years ago.

	13-06-2003 01:23									#94
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Mitchell,
Maybe we should just switch states, although I hate the heat. Your county???? Gettting a little micro aren't ya.

	13-06-2003 01:29									#95
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quote: Your county???? Gettting a little micro aren't ya.

Ouchita County is to Arkansas as Wisconsin is to the United America.

quote: Which states have the most electoral votes?

Calif, NY, Texas, and that annoying little nursing home state we got from spain in 1819. 2 (1.5) of them were for Bush and 2 (2.5) of them were for Gore. If more people wanted to vote for Gore than Bush, then the majority rule. Whut's the problem? Are you seeking a return to olden days where the minority held an iron fist over everyone else?

	13-06-2003 01:30									#96
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That's not the point Boris, I shouldn't have phrased it that way, we all were immigrants at one time. When my great grandparents came to this nation they literally worked the land for what they needed or died trying, now it seems a good portion, not all, get citizenship and jump on the Federal, State supplement funding ASAP.
Look at the Social Funding of America, 1.4 trillion out of 2.2 trillion budget is dedicate to Social, now that encompasses alot, such as medicade, medicare, etc., but also perpetual handouts, and I don't like it.
Your liberal class makes a point of laboring to them for votes and I believe it works. Republicans don't.

	13-06-2003 01:33									#97
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Mitchell,
It was the good ole boys from the good ole days that instituted the electoral college, remember them, some of them are even on the currency in your Arkansas pocket, they fought the idea of taxation without representation, coming back now.

	13-06-2003 01:34									#98
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Whut's the problem?

I asked you first.

	13-06-2003 01:40									#99
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I'm still waiting for an answer:

Say that, instead of the Electoral College, it was simply one person, one vote for President. How would this have changed the outcome of any of the past Presidential elections to the detriment of the smaller states? And would it have done so to all of the smaller states, or just some?

Considering that, as mentioned, the vast majority of Presidents have been elected with at least a plurality of the popular vote, the hand-wringing over it seems hollow.

	13-06-2003 01:41									#100
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Yes, Defiant, I know that. However, the EC has outlived its purpose, and it's time for it to go. It was intended for a federation of mini-nations, and we're not a federation of mini-nations any more.

And as long as you bring it up, I find it required to mention they would probably slap both of us silly for various breaks from the True American path anyways.

	13-06-2003 01:42									#101
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Here's my answer Boris. My general rule when considering changes to the Constitution is fairly simple: Don't.

	13-06-2003 01:42									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Mitchell, It was the good ole boys from the good ole days that instituted the electoral college, remember them, some of them are even on the currency in your Arkansas pocket, they fought the idea of taxation without representation, coming back now.

IIUC, the Foundings Fathers have done so, so it must be holy ?

	13-06-2003 01:44									#103
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Here's my answer Boris. My general rule when considering changes to the Constitution is fairly simple: Don't.

My black friends are glad this hasn't been the case.

When it makes sense to change it, we should do so. It's time to move away from sectarian "states rights" nonsense and embrace One America, Indivisible. States Rights are doing more to pull this country apart than anything else.

	13-06-2003 01:52									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov When it makes sense to change it, we should do so.

I haven't seen a persuasive case for it's removal thus far.

	13-06-2003 01:53									#105
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Long are the days from being white, male, own property to vote. I keep telling my wife our forefathers never intended for her to vote and she shouldn't.
Man can women have a wrath.

	13-06-2003 01:55									#106
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One of the few reasonable argument I've heard for the continuation of State's Rights is that each state can act as a mini-testing grounds for various public policies. Presumably the federal gov't and the other states can survey the effectiveness of what the states are doing and choose their policies accordingly.

The other reason for overrepresentation of small states in the Senate and the EC is to avoid the dreaded tyranny of the majority. Small states can band together and assert a greater power than they could if voting was based soley on population.

	13-06-2003 01:56									#107
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Spiffor,
That is why they are called the founding fathers, they got kicked out of every decent country in the world to produce the most powerful today.

	13-06-2003 01:57									#108
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the more i look at it the more i want state power and less federal government.

	13-06-2003 01:57									#109
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quote: It's time to move away from sectarian "states rights" nonsense and embrace One America, Indivisible. States Rights are doing more to pull this country apart than anything else.

Over my dead body .

States Rights should be STRENGTHENED, not weakened. I want more state control of things, from drinking age to drug use laws.

	13-06-2003 01:58									#110
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I agree with Imran not for the same reasons, but state's right should be strengthened and Fed power reduced, to stop or limit central power.

	13-06-2003 02:03									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui States Rights should be STRENGTHENED, not weakened. I want more state control of things, from drinking age to drug use laws.

Unless I'm mistaken, both drinking age and drug laws typically fall under state jurisdiction - unless you cross state lines of course.

	13-06-2003 02:05									#112
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gunkulator, you know that several pot legalization propositions are being pissed on by the federals, and that they also blackmail the drinking age to 21 with federal highway money.

	13-06-2003 02:07									#113
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Unless I'm mistaken, both drinking age and drug laws typically fall under state jurisdiction - unless you cross state lines of course.

You're quite mistaken. The drinking age is set by the federal government and the blackmail the States into accepting it. As for the drug laws, you need only see the federal drug raids in cannabis clubs after California approved a measure legalizing medicinal MJ.

	13-06-2003 02:09									#114
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wow, dinodoc and i posting the same thing? using several of the same words? i think i might be going conservative.

	13-06-2003 02:11									#115
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DD is correct. While what the Feds are doing on both issues is Constitutional (the drug one a bit less so), I dissagree with both positions the Federal government has taken.

I also agree with the 'testing ground' idea, but also, different states might not have the same requirements as other states. Some states might be fine with an 18 drinking age and legalized pot. Why deny that to them simply because everyone else might not want that?

	13-06-2003 02:12									#116
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Well, yes, if states insist on taking the drug called "Federal Aid", then they have to pay what the dealer demands. Dealers are notorious for jacking up the price once they have you hooked. Those who demand more state rights should perhaps kick their own bad habits first.

	13-06-2003 02:15									#117
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quote: Well, yes, if states insist on taking the drug called "Federal Aid", then they have to pay what the dealer demands. Dealers are notorious for jacking up the price once they have you hooked. Those who demand more state rights should perhaps kick their own bad habits first.

Well yes, but we are arguing the dealer should be NICER, since we get to pick our dealer, and can easily get rid of him .

	13-06-2003 02:18									#118
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quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Well, yes, if states insist on taking the drug called "Federal Aid", then they have to pay what the dealer demands.

Yes, let's get rid of that pesky and annoying 10th Amendment.

	13-06-2003 02:26									#119
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You can't have it all: If you take dirty federal money, I don't feel the least bit sorry that the feds set conditions you don't like. Don't take the money. Just say no.

I confess to not keeping up with drug laws. I thought some states had limited forms of legalization. On the whole, though, I see great deal of immaturity from state legislatures who suck at the federal teet in the morning and then cry like little babies in the afternoon about how mean their mommy is.

	13-06-2003 03:11									#120
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I haven't seen a persuasive case for it's removal thus far.

Elections wherein a candidate loses the popular vote but still becomes President aren't enough? Odd.