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Beta
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Prowling in a PBEM near you!
Nov 2002
time: 00:28
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Greetings, world neighbours. Vox has been left with little choice but to go public with our on-going attempts to reach some form of reconciliation with Gathering Storm.
Here is what we proposed to GS:
- they get all of South Estonia, below Elipolis
- we gift Dissidentville to them
- we do a public mea culpa - we would readily admit to our aggression and duplicity in starting this war.
- we post a public non-agression pact with GS into the next era.
- we will provide engineering in approx 15 turns.
-we provide our free tech going into the next era.
-we will not attack Inchon
-we are allowed to safely evacuate all our troops from South Estonia
- this to include Harry and 4 other immortals trapped on the mountains in the SE. As a show of good will - they will move down to tha plains where they will be easy targets.
-and discuss the movement of Inchon - maybe two tiles south. They will still get the prime enhanced grassland tiles - but our cultural borders will not be overlapping.
-we also agreed to forfeit any access to iron, as a commitment to future non-aggression
This was rejected by GS. However - they still put a peace deal back up on the screen, and we sent back the deal unaccepted, with Dissidentville added to continue the discussion. We also ceased any attacks on GS units.
That was the same turn they eliminated our Immortals in the south - who basically left themselves undefended as a sign of good faith. And we informed them we were doing this as well. (Eliminated is probably not the right word - execute might be better.)
They have now landed troops in North Estonia.
It would appear that we are past the point of any reasoning or discussion. They are willing to give us some limited time to get off of North Estonia, but they do not want us to stay. They want the entire continent. That is clear.
So despite our public admission of blame in this affair, and having suffered a much greater loss in the war, and now being willing to give public and tangible assurances regarding their security, Gathering Storm still wants the small patch of land we call home.
We the people of Vox, and the much Humbled One, wanted you to know.
.... Beta.
Last edited by Beta on 13-06-2003 at 08:27
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Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:28
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I initially posted my personal reply in here, but then I noticed that some members of my team have suggested that we hold our response to Beta's post until we have formed a concensus on this issue.
While I think that my own post was appropriate, I have removed it temporarily out of respect to my teammates.
I can only say that personally, it saddens me that Beta has returned to his past ways of lies and deception, and has chosen to break our trust again, this time twice (by posting blatant lies publicly and by exposing details of recent private negotiations between Vox and GS without our consent), and during such critical times when our teams struggle to find a peace formula that everyone can agree on.
Last edited by Shiber on 13-06-2003 at 12:17
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Shiber
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Haifa, Israel
Jul 2002
time: 07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiberius
[personal opinion]
Calling Beta's words "blatant lies" and then answering in a PM instead of making your position public certainly doesn't improve GS's image and shifts the propaganda war even more in Vox's favour.
[/personal opinion] |
We don't want to post an official reply in Beta's thread because we don't want to get into a flame war with Beta. However, I realize that answering by PM is problematic because it won't allow Beta to review our PoV and defend his.
We thought of that, and we're discussing the possibilily of inviting everyone to a chat, where we will present our PoV to representatives of all teams (we ask to be allowed to speak first, since Beta has already released several public announcements), and then Vox will have their chance to defend their PoV, and then we will both take questions from the public. Are the leaders of the nations of Bob and of Lego Land interested in attending such a gathering?
quote:
Vox's proposal seems reasonable and since we strongly support peace we are supporting this proposal. Having no words from GS makes our position more difficult, though. |
I assure you that we will explain, in detail, why we view Beta's proposal as unfair and even bordering insulting, and why we feel that our own proposal is not only fair, considering Vox's situation and plans for the future, but also the only possible peace agreement that we are willing to accept.
I ask of the general public not to be rash to judge GS by Beta's words alone. Detailed explanations are to come. 
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:28
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This is not an official GS response, but seeing how people seem to be responding to the situation, I consider it important to clear the air a bit.
(1) We had made it clear to Vox that the war would continue unless and until a peace settlement was reached. Vox therefore had no basis from which to expect not to be attacked.
(2) The immortals Vox moved were among the first to invade our lands, and had already been convicted of Invasion in Violation of Treaty, complicity in the murder of Grog, and Threatening the Public Safety. They were under sentence of death, and all but two had been reduced to a single hit point by catapults prior to the turn in question. Their execution was carried out precisely on schedule, very much as it would have been had they not moved.
(3) Further, moving those immortals placed them adjacent to not one, not two, but three undefended Gathering Storm workers. If that was a "sign of good faith," it was a grossly incompetent one.
(4) If Vox were trustworthy, we might regard Beta's peace offer as reasonable in spite of the fact that the only territory Vox is offering to concede is territory already behind our front lines, territory that Vox has no real hope of holding in any case. But after the blatant lies and elaborate deception Vox used to set up their attack on us, we find it difficult to see how a peace treaty from Vox could be worth the paper it's printed on. Leaving Vox on our continent would mean spending enormous sums of gold and shields on units to guard the border for the rest of the game. We see no reason why we should suffer from such a penalty just because others have decided to put expediency ahead of honor. (The irony is that even though a lack of trust is the biggest obstacle to peace, Beta seems intent on further demonstrating Vox's untrustworthiness in this thread.)
(5) As I pointed out to Jon when he conveyed Vox's willingness to forego iron, that is no real guarantee of security at all. During the war, Vox actually went so far as to deliberately disconnect their iron supply from most of their cities so they could continue building warriors and spears and upgrading them to immortals and pikes. All it takes is iron for one turn for warriors and spears to become immortals and pikes.
(6) We have little sympathy for Vox's arguments that the war has cost them more than it cost us. Both their losses and ours are their responsibility for starting the war, and we do not see how they have a right to sympathy for a situation they brought on themselves. And as I noted above, if we allow them to remain on our continent, their untrustworthiness would continue to impose a considerable cost on us long after the war is over.
(7) Finally, I should note that Lux Invicta was hounded off their home continent over alleged provocations that were nowhere near as serious as what Vox did to us. Certainly, neither Neu Demogyptica nor Glory of War should find it surprising that we want Vox gone from our continent.
If Vox wants a temporary cease-fire in order to evacuate from the continent in a more orderly fashion, and if they can find somewhere to evacuate to, that can probably still be arranged in spite of Beta's latest series of half-truths. But we do not view sharing a continent with a nation that seems committed to dishonesty as a way of life as a viable option.
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13-06-2003 08:13
This public announcement being possibly another brilliant example of his skills - honestly, after reading it, I can't help but feel... oh, well... I better wait for that GS official communiqué, so that I do not have to withdraw any support I might be showing based on... ummm... possibly skewed?... information from Beta(Hound).
It shows team spirit but not lacking in a sense of humor.
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